Topic [274] Viewing test TKR Remote Viewing Forum March 2004

It is the intent of the Dojo Psi that the living-history of remote viewing's development in the public sector not be erased, revised, or otherwise lost to the vagaries of time. In this spirit, the dojo encourages, promotes, hosts and develops archives of online Remote Viewing activity. [Caveats] For current discussion on remote viewing, click the logo at the top of the page to visit TKR's big Remote Viewing Discussion Forum directly.

Member#247, somewhere around March 4, 2004

We have determined that there are 3 true remote viewers of sufficent talent on this message board. There may be a fourth who is able to at least partially block him/herself (Which is interesting to say the least).

The task before your is to reply here to a viewing test . There is an item place on top of the middle of my computer monitor. Simply reply as to what this item is. We are attempting to see if there are other who are able to view but mask their abilities (knowingly or unknowingly).

I appreciate your help in this

Scott_Ellis, somewhere around March 4, 2004

Member# 247 wrote:
We have determined that there are 3 true remote viewers of sufficent talent on this message board. There may be a fourth who is able to at least partially block him/herself (Which is interesting to say the least).

Scott responds:
That's amazing!  How did you make this determination?

Member#247, somewhere around March 4, 2004

I'm one member of a group who is seeking to boost membership. We are seeking the truly gifted. We have a certain number of mental telepathists who with aid of remote viewers find and locate gifted but usually untrained individuals.

As stated 3 individuals who frequent this messageboard seem to be fairly gifted with remote viewing. Our stronger MT's say there is possibly another who "drops off" as soon as they are located. The assumption is they are somehow shielding or otherwise blocking themselves off to our MT's.  We would love to actually contact this person.

Joe_Black, somewhere around March 5, 2004

Whats the purpose of your group?

On top of your monitor. That narrows it down alot don't you think, drop a random number instead perhaps?:)

EricT, somewhere around March 5, 2004

What?

You can remotely determine people talent level, which is astounding... yet not so good at spelling, eh?  (sufficent)

That aside..

You have identified an item atop your monitor.  Dont you realize, being oh masterful amazing RVer that you claim to be, how much frontloading that is?  Youve given away size, wieght, and location.  Had I to guess, its a trinket of some kind, like a toy of some sort, or desk knick-knack.  No RV used yet.  Shall I continue?  Do I win a prize?

If I were RVing a blind target, and identified the item as something small, light, and on a PC monitor, well hells bells, I would call that a pretty good hit.

I would suggest if you want to test people, you use a better target that has less frontloading involved.  Sorry for the admin bashing, but I have seen this test suggested before, and it was just flame bait so the poster could then swear RV doesnt work later.  We have no control of what you got on your monitor, whether you change it, whatever.  Hoping you werent that other guy, but suspicious nonetheless.

Watch the trolling people....  if that isnt your intention, then I apologize.  But you need a way better target to test anyone, and for that matter, alot more independent trials.  JoeM claims %60 hit rate at best.  If I gave him 1 target- and he missed- it would surely not negate all the other amazing RV he's done.  

EricT

energycritter, somewhere around March 5, 2004

Well done Eric.....

That was not bashing, just good ole straight talk....what you said needed to be said....

:)

ec

Member#247, somewhere around March 5, 2004

Purpose of the group is to foster knowledge and understadning of psychic talents. It is combined use of talents that allow others to be located.

As to the test being front loaded. It is not. The item has been specially placed there and is not  a "knick-knack".   It is though a set place that has been desginated. THe item will remain there until the test is over.  I focused on the item and that (it has been our understanding) often helps a remote viewer locate and view the item more quickly.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 5, 2004

OH GOODIE GOODIE!! ;-) ;-)

It's been quite a while since we've had a 'hot topic' and this one could be a scorcher.  :o

I've read all the posts with great interest and while doing so, received many impressions and sensings...psychic and otherwise.  The term Remote Viewing is a label defined by certain principals. The underpinnings of remote viewing is, however, just good plain ole fashioned psi. Surely you took our ability to sense things into consideration when you made your offer (baiting ? ) right?...that there are those of us who would pick up on intentions and the like and then 'just know'.

[quote]We have determined that there are 3 true remote viewers of sufficent talent on this message board      [/quote]
     
This is fascinating...that  from a membership of over 300,(yes, I know you said message board) that you (the 'we') determined 'who is good' but that you can also count how many are good...wheeee...Excellent.

Member 247 ~~ just who is this (your) group? What are your or your groups credentials?  How is that by making your offer within TKR it boost membership...(whose membership?)
You are asking much from the membership but offer little to excite us (as far as the offer goes that is).  :P

...your group: seems to me that you're having access to the remarkable ability of 'honing in on the good ones' that you hardly need the wee 3 from the TKR membership.  All that is needed to boost your membership is to lurk around the umpteen chat rooms and psi sites to pick out the finest worldwide and then invite them to your group and have at it. OH.....but this has been done also...the lurking I mean  ;)

...you have alluded to familiarity to this membership: by reading the postings?  If yes, then you must recognize that this is a quality group not easily fooled or lured. Sure, you may pick up a few who will want to give this a whack, but others will simply 'know' and will do otherwise.

If you have read the posts here, you will have noticed that this group can and does chase down details...we want truths and understandings with supporting details and information. Your thinking that your saying 'you are a member of a group' is good enough to float, missed the boat.

 [quote]We would love to actually contact this person.[/quote]
     
couldn't resist this one ~~ want to know who they are??  have you tried remoting them as a target?...within protocols of course.  wheeee hooo   ;-)
     
     
For the fun of it, consider this:

[quote]You have identified an item atop your monitor.  -)ont you realize, being oh masterful amazing RVer that you claim to be, how much frontloading that is?  Youve given away size, wieght, and location.  Had I to guess, its a trinket of some kind, like a toy of some sort, or desk knick-knack. [/quote]
     
     Here is how remote viewing has worked for me in the past. My subconscious knows what the target is no matter how it is disguised, hidden, obscured or manipulated. ( I said my sc...not my logical/rational mind LOL). The point is, when presented with a target, the intent of the sc is to hone in on the target no matter how the target is presented. This being the case, whatever is on top of this monitor could simply be a picture of the actual target in an envelope. Example: therefore, the target could be the Taj Mahal or Mount Everest....larger than a trinket.
 So, while it may seem that too much information has been given, has it ?  Hmmmmm


    Not a good idea to mess with the TKR members...but being from 'your group', you knew this right?
     
phhffft


oakie dokie...next?



     
     

EricT, somewhere around March 5, 2004

[quote]Purpose of the group is to foster knowledge and understadning of psychic talents. It is combined use of talents that allow others to be located.

As to the test being front loaded. It is not. The item has been specially placed there and is not  a "knick-knack".   It is though a set place that has been desginated. THe item will remain there until the test is over.  I focused on the item and that (it has been our understanding) often helps a remote viewer locate and view the item more quickly.


[/quote]

Thanks for the hints.  I guess if we push hard enough, we might be able to determine what this thing is from sheer logic?  Interesting RV test.  How about just a traget ID next time?

Sorry, I am both unimpressed with your methodology and your candor.  The flak you are getting from all on the board here should be a good indication to you, that your method of pushing your "membership drive" is being recieved fairly poorly.  BTW target cueing is an HRVG method, and, I believe that is where I saw this test before.  Gonna go dig that up on the archives, see what is what there.  I dont believe you were in a group then, with telepaths and whatnot.  If that is you...

Were all here to learn, get better, discuss and debate.  But pretending to be something you aint, or just plain being ominously spooky kinda reeks of an unchecked ego issue.

Sorry if I am reading this incorrectly, but I call it as I see it.  

BTW

Once the galleris come up, people will be able to post thier sessions, all double blind, anonymous or named.  Its cool.  And will in short order seperate the talkers from the do'ers.

EricT

Member#247, somewhere around March 5, 2004

Well it is not just that there are only three. Only three have been "noticed". Part of this test is to determine if their are more people here who are somehow able to hide themselves from from our MT's.

If you are offended by this test and how I went about this then I'm sorry. Part of our group said this was a bad idea. The rest either thought it would be a nice attempt or couldn't hurt.

Another interesting thing that i've noticed is that some individuals claim to view in different ways. Perhaps those who train in a group formulate and relate in similar ways while others train in different ways. For us it is the ability to focus in on a mentioned location and view what is occuring at that place in real time. Not seeing the future, not astral projection. We remain in our bodies but are able to view the location.

That also being said their is a lot of exploration about what all one can or can't do or could one day do. Combination, strength of abilites and the like included.

Again this was no bait simply a test.

As to our group as to our group we were formed by Dr. Daniel Hirschman in 1934. He was interested in the the studies Dr.Rhine was doing at Duke University. World World 2 with is mass conscription hamper much of his studies but after the end of the war he began studying. After some years some and promising results University of Chicago decided his research was not verifiable he moved to to Baden, Switzerland. Research continued and he opened Hirschman Mind Institute inviting the gifted to train. Since then some other satellites have been set up in areas like Christchurch, New Zealand; Caesarea Maritima, Israel; Kyoto, Japan, and Lake Havasu, United States.

EricT, somewhere around March 5, 2004

NM147-

It appears I may have misinterpreted your intent, even though I still stand by my opinion that your method lacks some basic science, per your offered test.

Also- someone did this on another board awhile back, tried to get people to RV "what kind of subway token I got on my monitor"  Talk about frontloading.

I am sure there are those out thee would would love to get paid to RV.  I sure would!  But only doing altruistic targets, which usually begets NOT getting paid.  Oh well.

Best of luck with your search- I implore you though, think a little bit about your "testing" and realize that your lack of total double blindedness in your test suggests a lack of basic RV protocol and hence knowledge on the subject.  Not saying that is the case- just saying that your single, frontloaded testing suggests such things.

Eric

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 5, 2004

OMG  :-X :-X :-X

[quote]Part of this test is to determine if their are more people here who are somehow able to hide themselves from from our MT's.
[/quote]  

:-X :-X :-X  

[quote]If you are offended by this test and how I went about this then I'm sorry. Part of our group said this was a bad idea. The rest either thought it would be a nice attempt or couldn't hurt.
[/quote]

The good ole 50/50 such is life equasion   :P

Thanks for a little information on your group...is appreciated.

modified to add:

[quote]For us it is the ability to focus in on a mentioned location and view what is occuring at that place in real time.[/quote]

This sounds very interesting. How about telling us more about this! What formats (guidlines, protocols, criteria) do you use. What methods of verification do you use?  Explain how you go about this process and the results etc.

What you are doing is different from RV as most use the term, however, accurate results can't be denied when legitimate means are used. If your group is getting a high % of 'hits' , then I for one, would like to learn more about your process.

Member#247, somewhere around March 5, 2004

Well the general study for a Viewer begins like this. A university or group states that an a promising individual has been found. Depending on where the person is a group of 5 specialist either go to them or the person comes to one of our facilities. They conduct a card test. They reveal what image is on the card. They then conduct a test in which they tell the prospective student that 1 of 3 people (always one of the specialists) will go in a nearby windowless room. They are told to say who enters the room and if possible what they are doing. Tests then continue involving distance. Some are able to improve time they are viewing a subject. Or distance as which they can view a subject. Others can't improve. For some its seems the reach a wall which they can't break through while some just can't. Those with more ability are then tested in conjunction with other with different abilities.

Some international companies and law agencies seek out our services. Our Christchurch group recently lost a whole team in a car accident as a result are attempting to elevate the members we do have and replace them with some new members. Even so the process is not a quick one.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 6, 2004

[quote]A university or group states that an a promising individual has been found[/quote]

[quote]or the person comes to one of our facilities. [/quote]

[quote]Some international companies and law agencies seek out our services. [/quote]

[quote]as a result are attempting to elevate the members we do have and replace them with some new members. [/quote]


Again, I appreciate the additional information Member #247, but here is what bugs me  now~  you take the time to present a seemingly authentic project and information, however, upon pulling up your profile, I see that it smacks of funster type stuff... that you narrowed your location down to earth makes it a bit easier for anyone wanting to learn more about your group or contacting you/them a bit easier  ::)

Why go to all this effort and then not present yourself/group as credible?  Remote Viewing is and has been full of flim flam propositions and information and the info on your profile does nothing to help you, your group or your intentions as stated in your postings.

How about taking the time to give us all some identifying information about you and your group. I posted quotes at the beginning of my post...how about addressing those items by offering more identifying information having to do with what you felt important enough to mention in your non informative manner?

You may be offering something credible...my hope is that you are because I don't enjoy making posts such as this one. I don't enjoy honing in on people or situations, but do so when I'm not satisfied with what is being offered for the sake of clarity.  As you can see, I'm a straightforward person, pretty much go for the bottom line ASAP where credibility is concerned.

I've read your postings a few times and can't help holding the opinion that you don't seem to be too sure of the workings of remote viewing or the differences of methods used which makes me wonder about all that you've said.  [quote]Some international companies and law agencies seek out our services[/quote]   I'm thinking they would require information that isn't as uncertain sounding as what you've posted here as a means of discussing remote viewing and it's process.

You may not think so, but I'm actually trying to help you help yourself out here....if you have something worthwhile, something worth consideration, then give us facts and ways to check things out.  -)eal?  

Member#247, somewhere around March 6, 2004

Well I personally work more overall in the Pacific area (The New Zealand and Japan groups). But travel all over the world quite often. I spend much of my time in hotels are stay at various Hirschman Facilities. So I put down Earth.

As for viewing I am curious as the majority of writing on the subject in this board is done by Americans. Hirschman's studies on Viewing and other fields was done in europe and some of his ideas of various mental abilities differ on what Dr.Rhine developed and recorded. Dr.Hirschman in his studies found that a person is born with mental abilities and that these tend to be passed on through genetic descendents. As such people can not be taught a skill if they have no talent for it. For remote viewing this ability has been ,at least in our understanding, the ability to focus on a item, place, or person, and "view" what is occuring in real time either where the item is (visually though most often not its given location) ,what the person is doing, or what is occuring at a particular location.  A person is much more likely to be able to view the item, person, or place if they have physically been in contact with it. As I stated earlier there are varying levels of ability. Some people are able to locate a person then have never met no matter where on the earth they are. Other have to have already met the person and can only locate them with in range of a large urban city.

As for the quotes you have questions about...  Countries who have contacted us include Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Thailand, Phillipines, Indonesia, Russia (since fall of of communism). THese are countries 've dealt with. As for the Business groups we have a non disclosure policy and do not reveal who we have worked for.

As to the members. We have  more powerful skilled people who are more in charge in say an investigation where a person in a company has embezzled money and fled. We are in this case hired by the company to locate the person. Their is a team leader who, generally is the strongest, "investigates" and the others then aid in either locating  things leader "misses" or is unable to locate. Remote viewers are not the sole abilty included in groups though a "Viewer" is always included. The New Zealand group lost 5 members in the mentioned car accident 3 of whom were were "Viewers". As a result NZ is below the number of "Viewers" we would want a group to have. What we would do is promote those "Viewers" who have been with the group the longest and are the most powerful. We would replace the lower positions normally with trainees but all the facilities do not have sufficently trained individuals. So instead we had hopes of locating outside indiiduals who already have sufficent skill.  Some of these we hoped would be the 3 or 4 located who use this messageboard. It would not even matter if these individuals wanted to stay in America (as those we located are in America) they could join the Lake Havasu group as we have some members of that group who have expressed intrest in transferring to New Zealand.  The split on decision in the group was on whether or not to contact individuals through this message board. I feel not only can we contact the three but also this one who "fades" out (This one is of great interest to the Hirschman specialists) . Perhaps there are many others on this board who just always appear "off the radar". Others who perhaps can hide through training their abilities. It is my hope that more individuals can be located to booster all of the groups not just the Christchurch one.  If not it doesn't matter. My little test will be seen as a failure and the regular means of contacting individuals will continue.

Damien, somewhere around March 6, 2004

    I admit it I admit it.... I'm the fader.  Actually its just the tinfoil hat I bought from Eric.  Grade A foil with waxpaper insulation(protects from the commie death rays).  
    If you were more educated in the process of remote viewing you might consider choosing a different target.  A single object is a very hard thing to get a hold of with good accuracy, also the fact that you have frontloaded everyone that it is indeed an object.  Common sense will eliminate most possiblilities of what could be on your monitor as surface area is limited.  This is a hinderence more than a help.  The advantage of RV to normal psychic perception is the ability to gather data from a target that the viewer is completely blind to.  All you normally have are a few #'s.  I am quite confident that your search for gifted remote viewers would be more fruitful if you and your associates were to read the material that is abound and develop a more effective protocol.  Let me know if I can be of any more assistance.
                    ;)
                       -)amien

Member#247, somewhere around March 7, 2004

It continues to be stated that this is front loaded. It is not. A sufficently skilled "viewer" is given a location, place or item and can view the area. It might be hard for many of the RV's here but for most of the "viewers" in our facilities it is not. I do not have any idea what you mean by a having a few numbers. As to the item. I'll state that the monitor is very large. About 60 centimeters in height and width. As such it is very large and could hold a very large item or something small. I have not said if it was an obscure or commonplace item or anything else. This a typical test at one of our facilities.

Since you state it is hard to consistently do I'd assume you are not one of those we seek.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

Thank you Member #247...now we're getting somewhere!

I certainly understand your clause of confidentiality concerning those who employ you/your group. If I were in need of your groups services, how would I know of you?  -)o you have a web site?  and email address?  A physical location where I could write or place a phone call?  You are asking members of this board to participate in a project that will be of benefit to you. I feel it only proper that in return, you supply us with as much credible and authentic information as possible about you and your group.

Many of us here, but I specifically only speak for myself, are very careful with whom we (I) work with in psychic matters.  There are so many less than desirable persons in the psi field and twists and turns with these individuals and their agendas, that I like all put up front right from the start.
This training that you provide - is this at no cost to the trainee or is there a payable fee for being trained? Are the working members of your group paid for their services when employed to do a job or is all participation on a volunteer basis?

I wouldn't be so quick to call your project a failure as you did. I think the 'problem' here is that you are referring to your set up as 'Remote Viewing'. As such, the way you have it set up does not fall into the defination/protocols of remote viewing as defined by most within this group. However, the underpinning of your 'test' is related to basic psi abilities which makes a known end result possible. If finding persons who can accomplish what it is you are looking for under the guidlines/presentation of your present test, then fine. In the end, it's you who must be satisfied that you have acquired what you need by the standards acceptable to your group. It is what it is.

I don't think it's a matter of those within this forum being or not being able to accomplish what you are asking...it's more a matter of 'this being a proper remote viewing' situation as defined by various methodologies as I stated before.  I'm sure that if any of this group participated, you would be shown some very good feedback....psi is psi afterall.

The number thing that confuses you - a project is assigned a number as a means of identifying any target. For example, this item you have on your monitor could have been presented in this manner (per RV protcols). I have a project numbered # 39575, please give all information you receive regarding this target. The actual numbers used have no meaning at all...you could just as well have used letters instead such as ALGHVSLJE.  ....doesn't matter see?

By using the method described above, those interested in participating would have NO INFORMATION AT ALL about the target...as opposed to us now knowing that this target is located inside not outside, is in a room, you've already stated that it is NOT a knick-knack...see, already way too much information has been provided which plants too many seeds for most remoters to overcome the AOL problems.... but this is a whole other topic.

Should you not receive any particpation from this group, I hope that our conversation will make your contact with the next group a bit easier and will produce some candidates for you. Thank you for respecting my questions and for providing answers.

Damien, I have to chuckle everytime the foil hat reference is made... that whole topic was so funny.

energycritter, somewhere around March 7, 2004

[quote]What?

You can remotely determine people talent level, which is astounding...


and for that matter, alot more independent trials.  JoeM claims %60 hit rate at best.  If I gave him 1 target- and he missed- it would surely not negate all the other amazing RV he's done.  

EricT[/quote]


Member#247, I am sorry to jump into the middle of your dance you have initiated within this thread, please excuse my intrusion with yet more cross-examination and I do not mean to step on your toes, I am a bad dancer, so, please just bear with me and consider the following and again, please pardon the cross-examination as such and realize my intentions of finding clarity as others have wanted.

I am trying to understand the technique that you and your group are using to determine the ability of members of this forum. This forum does not yet render very many RV results of the members, so, you must be using a psi functioning technique to find or determine the ability of the members, if that is true, then why would you want to resort to a test as you have indicated?

If you want to test members, then how do you explain the idea of the ONE single partially frontloaded test results being difficult to render true ability as mentioned above by Eric’s post regarding Joe’s ability? One single test would seem to be only ONE of many tests that would be needed to insure any credible ability.

So, maybe and if, you are determining ability through a psi technique that you and your group employ, then the test should not be needed and if you are using psi, wouldn’t you simply make your determinations through that psi technique and then contact the members that you find to be talented and then be done with your search, so to speak?

It just seems hard to understand how you and your group can be of such caliber of psi ability and then render ONE single test, typically considered by RVers to be frontloaded anyway, as a way to find talent among other psi people. On the one hand you claim ability that is such, which motivates companies and government agencies to employ you and your group, but, you seem to have an oversimplified means by which to find your members that have talent.

Some one that is completely new to RV can possibly pass your test with flying colors and not really be that good in real applications and then you employ them and then they fail or never really give good results in your group, but, who would know? Your group’s results would seem to be able to have many faulty aspects to their apparently highly subjective qualifying criteria by which they judge ability and results. I would think that stricter protocol would be a must when trying to find talent as it would appear you want to find.

I guess bottom line, I feel like your entire process is so oversimplified that it seems difficult to understand how you can claim to have such talent already at work within your group and yet you have such simple ways to find more talent within the world of a psi. Psi seems to be far more complex than what you seem to consider it to be when thinking about how you go about your search for talent. It does not seem that your way of finding talent would really be fool proof.

So, your single test must NOT be the only determining factor your groups uses to find talent and if it is not, then you possible already know what you need to know and the members that you think are good need to be contacted via instant personal message and then this testing issue can be put to rest.

I dunno M#247, please help explain how it is that you and your group have determined what it is that you claim to have determined about the members of this group. The claim of knowing any other humans ability is a boastful claim to make from anyone, unless of course, you are withholding vital information about how you make the determination and maybe your technique is more valid than we would have ever considered it to be, but, it is difficult for us to swallow the idea of you and your group being so “in-the-know” about the lives of three or four members that have not really even been able to render their RV results because the Gallery is not even done yet and RV practice has not really been rendered within this message board yet. Granted, some of the members of this forum have RV results rendered on other web-sites and maybe that is how you claim what you claim to know about the members, I dunno, all I have to work with is my own conjecture and a desire to learn what I can about what can be learned….teach us what you know and let us help you find what you are looking for.

OK, my poor dance steps are done….I will now quietly return to yin, exit the dance floor and hope to learn more from you and your group as this dance continues with the other members and yourself working through this search of yours.

Thanks, ec

:)

EricT, somewhere around March 7, 2004

Yeah, those foil hats are great.  Remember, when yours breaks Damien, I can sell you another at the low low half price of $150 this time.  Remember- handcrafted by the pros is the best way to go!

Member147, I dont mind you explaining yourself, but really, watch who you call "psychic" and "not psychic".  Quite frankly, if you deemed me not psychic or not good enough or whatever, I personally wouldnt put any stock in that, and continue down my own path, as I hope you would yours if I told you that "you werent good enough".  Make sense?  I hope so.

I dont mean to be... mean, but keep the member bashing to a dull roar, if you please.  Like I said before- play nice kids.  Everyone has thier own opinion to how tasking should be done.  And, I am with Damien- double blind is double blind- period.  No hints needed.  Its much more impressive to go from "1234-abcd" to "Luke skywalker action figure on a monitor" than your expirement, which is "something on my monitor" to "a thing on your monitor!"  I hope that clears up the point of view you are running into here.  Not bashing your method- just disagreeing with it.  But trying to explain the opinion too, make it clearer.  I agree that it takes a stronger RVer to get past possible frontloading issues, but it also makes for a greater possibility for chance hits.

It also does not help your case that a skeptic on the HRVG board tried the same thing awhile back, but it was a scam (IMO).  Very similar expiriment.  

Eric

energycritter, somewhere around March 7, 2004

[quote]
Since you state it is hard to consistently do I'd assume you are not one of those we seek.

[/quote]


M#247, the member bashing is not cool at all.....I forgot to mention that, so, I guess I have returned yang and also want to add, when you assume, you simply make an "ass" out of "u" and "me." So, as far as psi is concerned, it is not a good idea to assume anything about anyone else....that is not playing nice at all to make those type of oversimplified, subjective and projective remarks about anyone, especially someone that you know nothing about.

Returning to yin is difficult now.....but, I will try nonetheless.....   ;)

Before I return to yin, let me yang a little more....

M#247, being of a seasoned age, if your profile is accurate and true, you should know that someone elses assumtions about you have never had any affect on who you truly are and/or what you are truely capable of, so, please refrain from the bashing, it is making it hard for me to remain objective about your goal within this message board and I can flux back and forth between yin and yang at amazing speed, so, the niceness I manifest can turn into nastiness before you or I even realize it has happened. Ultimatly I intend on helping you, but, I also intend on protecting the members that serve the cause of this message board far more than protecting the lurkers that jump in and play head games with the members.

;-)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

bashing?  hmmmmm

not sure this is actual bashing happening here. I'm thinking M247 is being over simple in his explanations. I'll withhold thinking bashing until he has a chance to read these postings and respond.

...but something just ain't happen here for me...  :-/ :-X.
felt is right off the bat.... somethin  ??? ???

energycritter, somewhere around March 7, 2004

pdPJ, you are probably right.... ::)

I will modify and appologize accordingly if I have been too yang about the possible bashing.

Overall this thread has been very odd... :-/

I have pondered aspects of it off and on for a few days now and I have refrained from jumping in and playing, but, as is obvious, I have jumped in with both feet now.

So, M#247, if you were not bashing, I owe you an appology. Let me/us know your intentions behind saying such to Damien.

Like has been mentioned, determining ability is difficult to do and claims of someone NOT having a particular ability is not a way to make friends, especially when the determination is nearly impossible to make from any standpoint.

;)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

One, just one of the 'things' on my nerve is this:  for a group that is said to do work for/ provide services, that there isn't more sureness of the subject matter. It seems M247 that you are mostly unsure of what it is we are trying to explain to you.  I would think that you/your group would be more 'educated' in this aspect of psi or at least better able to converse about it.

I don't know how it is that you are in the position of being spokesperson for you/your group/this test...perhaps another could step in an talk to us a little?

Why us M247?... how is it you know about TKR?...what drew you to this group?

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

[quote]For remote viewing this ability has been ,at least in our understanding, the ability to focus on a item, place, or person, and "view" what is occuring in real time either where the item is (visually though most often not its given location) ,what the person is doing, or what is occuring at a particular location.  A person is much more likely to be able to view the item, person, or place if they have physically been in contact with it. As I stated earlier there are varying levels of ability.[/quote]

This, of course, is basically clairvoyance....trained to focus on particular tasks.


[quote]
My little test will be seen as a failure and the regular means of contacting individuals will continue.      [/quote]

Seen as a failure by whom? ...and which is the test you speak of ~ the project test of what is on your monitor or the test of approaching the TKR membership for recruits?   Please explain 'the regualar means' of contacting.

Member#247, somewhere around March 7, 2004

Well I only have a short time to reply. FOr those statements not mentioned I will respond to later.  

The 3 are not located through results. They are located by mental telepathists (MT's). WOrking with a remote viewer they "feel" ability being used and tell information to the "viewer" who then gathers more information on said individuals. 2 individuals were viewed using this messageboard. A third was felt using this site (after we became aware of it. THe fourth I suppose could have been one of the earlier three who somehow felt he/she was being observed and ended this "faded" out.

The test I admit is a stronger test. It is done in relation to some of the jobs which we are given. Locate this person, observe what this person is doing, find this item.  Just saying find an item doesn't seem as beneficial.

THe other main thing may be a rather different way in which our groups views, uses, and calls certain abilities. These ideas were developed through the work of Dr.Hirschman and others in the group.

As for the "bashing" statement I do apologize. I was slightly annoyed by the tin foil comment and felt that his saying it was difficult implied his abilities wouldn't be of use for out group.

Trainees are basically given a training which is then pay back throuhg working for the group. For some it is working with companies but many others it is in studying their abilities or in training others.

More later as I'm being called away.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

[quote]The 3 are not located through results. They are located by mental telepathists (MT's). WOrking with a remote viewer they "feel" ability being used and tell information to the "viewer" who then gathers more information on said individuals. 2 individuals were viewed using this messageboard. A third was felt using this site (after we became aware of it      [/quote]

Instead of all this cat and mouse, why not simply make contact with the 3 you desire to meet and be done with it? If they have posted on these boards all you need do is to message them by clicking on their screen names.

This forum has over 300 members. Most are not active posters which will narrow the exposure of posting members. It would be the latter of which were used for your MT's purpose? If so, according to your standards, you have the info you need as far as approaching these individuals.

I find the commentary regarding 'these 3' to be part of the bait here, but I will wait until you have the opportunity to address the other questions asked before saying more.  

modified to add:

Meanwhile, while you are getting your thoughts together, which Dr Hirschman are you referring to:  Dr. Louis J. Hirschman, Dr. Karl D. Hirschman,
IRA HIRSCHMAN, PH.D ??  I would like to check the internet for more information.

Member#247, somewhere around March 7, 2004

Thats just it if if wasn't for this fourth person that seemingly can block being seen we would just contact the three in the normal manner. But it was discussed and considered that there could be more who block themselves. It is in the hope of contacting others (or at least the one who can block us) that we decided to post this on this board.

It is Dr. Daniel Hirschman. I don't know what you'll find online. There are paper journals in psychology journals of the 20's. Such as the Journal of Philosophy, Psychology and Scientific Methods

admin, somewhere around March 7, 2004

Be grateful for blocks.  The alternative isn't pretty.

PJ

Member#247, somewhere around March 7, 2004

[tt]Be grateful for blocks.  The alternative isn't pretty.

PJ [/tt]

Why is this and do you know how this is happening?

EricT, somewhere around March 7, 2004

[quote]Be grateful for blocks.  The alternative isn't pretty.

PJ[/quote]

LOL

NM147 is in for it now... hahaha.

Seriously NM147, at this point, I have to say that if you dont think that "name the thingy on my monitor" is frontloading, then you just dont get the definition of frontloading.  Which suggests to me, there might be alot more about RV you just dont know about.  I am sorry, but this whole thing just doenst pan for me.  It doesnt feel right.  This whole psi thing is all about intuition, right?  Thats just my gut feeling.  You may notice that both EC and PDPJ have asked you the same questions as I have, and I thiers, so it isnt just me.  

Per Damiens comment, he was just trying to keep it light-hearted.  We try to do that here on the boards.  I am sure he didnt mean to offend.  -)o a search on tinfoil hats, they come up alot, hehe.

BTW, per your telepathy RV psychic member drive, er... your method is based on people actively RVing.  Ever considered there might be some good people here on the board that havent been actively RVing during your telepathic "googling"?

Your methods baffle me, but then I admit, I have yet to be part of a pay to play group.   Ooh- an assumption on my part, do forgive.  I assume you are looking to hire, which implies salary?

Just curious.  Your co. you work for aint my biz, so feel free to abstain to coment on the financial aspects if you wish, no big.

Eric

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

okie dokie.....

     For me, the music has stopped playing and this dance is over. I've been spun around the same circle too many times now.

     I don't know about the rest of you posters, but I've had enough of 'deliberate avoidance' of pertinent answers. This being the case, I know what I need to know.

     While my gut gave me instant feedback while reading the posting that started this thread, I tried to maintain a fair and balanced dialog allowing for open discussion for any possible misunderstandings as well as for M247 to provide detailed answers to questions that I feel were important in regards to clarity....and I continue to feel myself being danced with.

    I know this.... If I was serious about my offer, if it were me trying to accomplish the task presented to us, I sure would have gone about it differently....and if I made some obvious errors and they were pointed out, I sure would have bent over backwards 'getting it right'...if I was serious.

    So, I'll continue to read and mentally monitor this thread and likely will 'show up again'..heh heh.... it's hard to say 'the end' when there is still more to come...LOL.  It feels as if we are all only just getting started...  the show isn't over....yet    

Member#247, somewhere around March 7, 2004

I mentioned about 4 times now that we know of 3 people but feel that there likely are more. That is the whole point to posting here. There is no "pay to play" we train and offer position after/if enough talent warrants it (which 90 of the time it does).

And Eric I can perfectly understand feeling that  group is not for you. THere are a few trainees who do feel that our group is for them. These students are then sent back home at no cost to them.

Polka-dot I have answered your questions. I have not danced around at all. If you don't feel I have answered then ask me what I have not answered.

I know the meaning of a loaded question. It is a statement created to produce predictable outcome. I do not know why you feel this is so. If  Someone wished to know where their stolen blueprints or worse yet their child was kidnapped would you tell them that this is frontloaded and wouldn't attempt to help them?

Oh and the the tin foil hat statement I perfectly understand. It is generally a statement alluding to the fact the reason they are needed is rediculous and the theory of a crack-pot. This is why I was offended.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

[quote]Polka-dot I have answered your questions. I have not danced around at all. If you don't feel I have answered then ask me what I have not answered. [/quote]      
     
Pfffffhhhtt.....looks like I wasn't gone for long...maybe I heard a few lost chords  ;)   LOL


How about you start with the dozen below ?
     
     [quote]Why us M247?... how is it you know about TKR?...what drew you to this group?
     
Seen as a failure by whom? ...and which is the test you speak of ~ the project test of what is on your monitor or the test of approaching the TKR membership for recruits?   Please explain 'the regualar means' of contacting.
     
Instead of all this cat and mouse, why not simply make contact with the 3 you desire to meet and be done with it? If they have posted on these boards all you need do is to message them by clicking on their screen names.
     
     If I were in need of your groups services, how would I know of you?  Do you have a web site?  and email address?  A physical location where I could write or place a phone call?      [/quote]

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

If you were to do a word search of this forum using the search bar provided, you would find many postings of mine referring to my having worked specifically with a group for the purpose of finding missing children. I did this work for about 1 1/2 years.

I also listed the methods we used for this work...how we went about it, how we sifted the info until we got 'end results'.

It seems we (all posters) are having 2 important conversation within this one 1. your test by definition/termenology and 2. Credibility.

I, for one, 'understand' what you are talking about regarding MT, uses of other psi aspects as well as 'would you deny help in locating a child' because of methodology.  All of us, I'm sure, would do whatever possible, within our means of talent/understanding to help...which is different than a discussion of front loading vs blind.

Member#247, somewhere around March 7, 2004

[tt] Why us M247?... how is it you know about TKR?...what drew you to this group?   [/tt]

I have answered this. The "viewers" saw two RV'ers using this site and MT's felt the third viewing or thinking of the site. This led me to this site. There are others attempting contact on other sites. I chose this one because the "fader" interested me.
 
[tt]Seen as a failure by whom? ...and which is the test you speak of ~ the project test of what is on your monitor or the test of approaching the TKR membership for recruits?   Please explain 'the regualar means' of contacting.  [/tt]
MY test is of course the tell me what item is on top of the monitor. I mentioned the regular means of contacting at least twice. MT in conjunction with a "viewer" find the person and  views then to get more information such as name address and all. They are then simply called or email. Or if close to a facility they are contacted in person.

 
[tt]Instead of all this cat and mouse, why not simply make contact with the 3 you desire to meet and be done with it? If they have posted on these boards all you need do is to message them by clicking on their screen names.  [/tt]

This question I have answered 5 times. We could contact the 3 but it is this possible 4th person who can block that we hope to contact or better yet even more individuals who can do so.
 
[tt] If I were in need of your groups services, how would I know of you?  -)o you have a web site?  and email address?  A physical location where I could write or place a phone call?    [/tt]

You likely could not afford our services. We do not just advertise in the phone book,  would you want James Randi and others calling you everyday to prove yourself? He didn't accept what we showed him and he and others still won't. But it matters not. We do not have website of the type you would like to see. There is no explanation of who we are and what we do. Just a simple list of offices and emails and phone numbers and internal messageboard for group members.  Corporations and governments know how to contact us. I do have a personal email I can give to you.  As to phone numbers I doubt you'd like to call New Zealand,  Switzerland or Japan? You could of course contact our group in Arizona but for what purpose?

As stated I have already answered most of these questions. There were only a few which I stated I would answer later but was sidetracked by later posts.

Member#247, somewhere around March 7, 2004

Polka : I am very glad to hear that you have aided in the locating of lost children. OUr group method relies more on get clues through the viewing to determine where the person or item is.  Because it doesn't help if an individual "viewer" knows where the item is at if you don't know where the location is. A viewer could travel north south east or west and sends days trying to come to a location they recognize.

I do admit though that I stil do not understand why this is a front-loaded test. I do feel it is a very hard test but even if someone were to guess what the item myself or others with my gift would easily know if they were lying or not. I would love to instantly known from a distance if one is lying or not but remote empathy doesn't exist.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

[quote][/You could of course contact our group in Arizona but for what purpose?
quote]

Never in a million years will you know just how interesting your Arizona referrence is !! ....not even your MT's will be able to touch this one!

Tell ya what....before you make comments about me not being able to afford your services, check with your MT's to find out for sure.

....and about my willingness to place long distance phone calls....you just have no idea at all at the calls I've placed or for what reasons.

It seems to me I'm getting on your nerves, which is okay by me.  Sometimes it takes an effort such as this to get to the bottom line and along the way, many other aspects are shown for consideration.

I will accept that a few of the questions had been answered, however, this, your last post is a little more informative as to just how you answered them previously.  There is a lot of 'fog' within this dialog....I'm simply trying to cut through it to see the light of day .

So, I'll wait until the remaining questions are addressed.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

[quote]but remote empathy doesn't exist. [/quote]

The heck it doesn't !!

I certainly does.

....or, are you saying YOU are not capable of remote empathy?  .... another question on the table now.

LOL....  if you only knew!!   I have had a 'remote' experience regarding empathy, knowings etc for several months now...ongoing...and you would be amazed, just simply amazed at all 'that was/is done and known' within this particular experience.  -)ue to confidentiality, I am unable to disclose particulars, but you can take this to the bank.... ANYTHING is possible via remote/distance.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

SOLD!!

[quote]We do not have website of the type you would like to see. There is no explanation of who we are and what we do. Just a simple list of offices and emails and phone numbers and internal messageboard for group members.  Corporations and governments know how to contact us. I do have a personal email I can give to you.[/quote]

I will be most happy with the address of the web site you DO have and I will determine if it's what I wanted to see or not.

Oh....and I'll take that list of phone numbers as well...simple as it may be is fine with me....and sure, your email as well.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 7, 2004

I'm still chuckling over the mention of Arizona.

I almost asked if you were Jeff before you even mentioned it...(Az) I know now that you aren't Jeff but there is a tie in.

Too bad that supreme ego of the founder was the cause of a good groups demise.  Yes, I've danced with Jeff too  ;-)  we danced and danced until he tripped on his own 2 feet.

Since then, I've been 'bumped into' by 'Jeffs people' many more than once....at the oddest times and places.....

I'm guessing I could use one of those foil hats Eric....when are you having them on sale?...wanna save my money in case I want to place some long distance calls   ;)

....about those foil thingys.... I need one for my computer too.  Since engaging in this thread today, my pc has crashed no fewer than 20 times.


Sheeeeshhh....pfffffttttt  


modified to add:

ahhhh...all is still here now. I hear the quiet.
So much can be heard in silence.

Off to bed...tomorrow is another day...and if my puter still lives I'll be back... ;)

oh....errrrr  .... that lines been used before huh?    ;-)

wizopeva, somewhere around March 7, 2004

Well now this thread's been busy since I've been gone!  I am quite happy to see that it's been quite civil though considering possible alternatives.  Clearly 247 does not understand our basic rv protocols.  Frontloading is by rv definition any time one gives out ANY info about the target.  Saying that a target is not a nicknack is clearly frontloading.  Implying that it can fit on top of a monitor is either frontloading or subtle deception, depending on what it is.  Now I'm not saying one could not succeed with such info, only that giving out such info goes against the basic protocols of rv.  

Besides, rvers do not require an exact location in order to work a target.  If someone knew about rv, then they would know that basic info.  Now if they only knew about general psi, they should indicate that as well so that we may know to whom we are speaking.   Psi works too, but the term 'rv' implies certain protocols that have not been met in this instance.  

Now 247, you have come here not knowing basic rv protocols.  You have given NO verifiable info about your credentials and lofty claims.  Then you have off the bat demanded a test, following it with seductive but equally unverifiable and vague claims about yourself.   Such would raise the hackles of most intelligent and inquiring types of people.  There should be no surprise to be met with suspicion in such a case.  You don't need to be psychic to predict it.  

I also fail to understand why if you want to contact a particular person you yourself don't give that person a reason to want to talk to you.  Are you saying that if that person were to come forward, you would not be able to use your psi to identify him/her?  And if that person does not want to come forward, then I would suspect he/she would not bother with your test either.  So I can't seem to understand the logic behind your test if your other statements are to be taken at face value.    

And as for your claim that remote empathy doesn't exist, I can't even concieve of how you would come to such a conclusion.  If you can make that unbacked claim well then I find myself forced to make a similarly unbacked claim that yes it does too exist!  LOL, I'm sure quite a number of rvers have experienced it themselves and will know of what I speak.   For those that haven't experienced it, they will probably make their decision based on what they know of we who claim it does and you who claim it doesn't.  And what they know of you is something between darn little and none.  

I always recommend to viewers that they be darn careful about who they accept targets from.  A target can be anything and a session can be used for anything.  You wouldn't lend money to a complete stranger and neither should you lend your mind to a complete stranger.  247, how about you do a test for us first eh?  ;-)
-E  

EricT, somewhere around March 8, 2004

[quote]

And Eric I can perfectly understand feeling that  group is not for you. THere are a few trainees who do feel that our group is for them. These students are then sent back home at no cost to them.

[/quote]

Not quite what I was saying.  Just, to be in a group, I would have to have absolute trust in the tasker.  Finding missing persons is good, unless say, its a tobacco company looking for an awol scientist that might be coming forward, so they can "silence" him.  You get what I mean?  Not saying you do that, just explaining my POV.  I would have to trust the taskings.  I have done missing persons work before in a group environ, albiet only one time.  Not saying I am mother teresa on this!  Hehe.

[quote]


I know the meaning of a loaded question. It is a statement created to produce predictable outcome. I do not know why you feel this is so. If  Someone wished to know where their stolen blueprints or worse yet their child was kidnapped would you tell them that this is frontloaded and wouldn't attempt to help them?
[/quote]

Okay, so that was loaded in itself!  You saying I/we would turn down a kidnapping target?  Hooo... now thats flamebait.  Nevermind that for now.

Lets talk standard RV protocol.

You would not say "thats frontloaded", c'mon now.  You have a team.  The team has a manager, or whatever you wanna call him/her.  Manager takes the tasking, tasks it with an alphanumeric tag, like 1234-abcd or whatever format you like.  Tasker gives it to another party, who does NOT know nature of target, that person gives the target to the viewer.  That is double blind- 2 degrees of seperation from the person who knows what is going on, to the viewer.  The viewer never has any idea what the target could be, or any contact with the person that does- lest you contaminate thier RVing with possible telepathic stuff.  You guys use telepaths to find... us...  or whatever, so you understand the ramifications.

And this is really basic RV stuff here NM147.  If you and your group dont do this double blind, I am sorry, I would not trust your findings.  I have worked missing persons cases before double blind, and named them as such.  -)ouble blind has to be, to get trustworthy data, and is not a hindrance.

As per the pay comment- I was just trying to see if you were a "work for free" group, as so many are, or if it was a salaried position.  Thats all, nothing loaded there.  Just curious.

Look, everyone PSI is reading into your posts.  I dont understand why anyone would come over here and try to make stuff up...  I am not PSI enough to have anything but a hunch on this, but the sheer logic of it all tells me that you need to read up on RV protocol.  

And if thats so, I wonder about the group.  Sorry.  

Read up on double blind stuff, really.  Ask questions here as to what you dont get.  I am not trying to annoy, or cause frustration, or anything but information and learning.  Thats what were all here to do, learn from each other.

NM247 you hav provoked some good conversation and debate- dont take it personally.  

And for anyone who wants tinfoil hats, the price just went up due to increasing demand!  ;)

Eric

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 8, 2004

[quote]And for anyone who wants tinfoil hats, the price just went up due to increasing demand![/quote]



Geeeezzzz !!  and doesn't this just figure !!   ::)

and to think that last week you couldn't give them away. :P

I see that you have buffed up on how to sell retail. It would be nice to have a custom made hat for myself and cover for my computer, but I've been told I may need my money for phone calls. Meanwhile, I'll just make do with wrapping Reynolds wrap all over   8)everything until the foil sale.

Maybe you should make plans to unload your hats ASAP. If Wal-mart gets wind that you have a hot item, they will blast you and your product into oblivion and then take it over for themselves...but ahh....this is another topic huh?...maybe suitable for 'predictions' ?  ;-)

I am having major computer problems today and need to address them. So far, just in trying to post this, I've been booted off twice and I'm really getting PO'd big time. (this would be 'politely offended'  ;) )  yea...right!  

So gone are all the neat projects I had lined up for today...lots of fun things that won't be done so that I can raise my blood pressure dealing with this $)^*@)(^*!@ computer.   >:(  ....we wouldn't want for me not to be able to continue posting would we ? ? ?   :'(

 shhhhh....keep THOSE thoughts to yourself plz   ;-)

EricT, somewhere around March 8, 2004

PDPJ

Per the tinfoil, I also sell at a slight discount a DIY manual for how to make your own.  

;)

On your PC- PM me.  THeres some bad viri about that I have helped one admin, a few clients and some friends remove.  Shoot me your symptoms, and all the vital PC stats (OS, anti-viral SW, and all that) and I will see if I can help out.

Sorry to hijack the thread per this, just wanna help out PDPJ.

E

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 8, 2004

[quote]Shoot me your symptoms, and all the vital PC stats (OS, anti-viral SW, and all that) and I will see if I can help out.
[/quote]

Will do!  (and will the 'fix' require a purchase of foil hats or what? )...the manual?   pfffftttt    ;)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 8, 2004

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  

interesting .......



anyone smelling toast?    ;)

Member#247, somewhere around March 8, 2004

You expect me to believe that remote empathy exists? Let me ask this instead do many of the individuals here claim to have more than one gift? It has always been our understanding that having multiple gifts is extremely rare. Now if some one was an empath and MT at the same time perhaps they could be considered a remote empath. But I haven't seen one yet.

As to the double blind in an actual case isn't that built in? Wouldn't no one have any infomation about the missing item or person. I understand the double blind test process just not how it is apporopriate to an actual case. You get as much information about the item as possible so that you can verify that the person or item is found. Myself or another empath hangs around to make sure the information received is truthful.


Arizona seemed to interest the board a great deal why is this? As the only Hirschman group in North America this is why I offered it to you.(As for the aksing a MT to aid me in finding out about you) Price tends to be 1,500 in New Zealand dollars an hour. We conduct ourselves in accordance with the laws of the country in which we are working.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 8, 2004

[quote]Price tends to be 1,500 in New Zealand dollars an hour[/quote]

It's been said ( famous ) that a sucker is born every minute.

[quote]You expect me to believe that remote empathy exists? Let me ask this instead do many of the individuals here claim to have more than one gift? It has always been our understanding that having multiple gifts is extremely rare.[/quote]

the ole' answer a question with a question ....

at 1500.00 per hour, I sure do expect more than what your knowledge/experience seems to offer (based on your presentation of self/info on your posts), but no, I certainly don't expect you to believe that which your mind is closed to. I, for one, have multiple 'gifts', but perhaps we are going to get into definitions before my comment is understood?

I don't know why your group would consider many gifts so rare...after all, how rare is it for a person to be able to sing, draw, speak a foreign language, have good math skills and/or any countless number of other combined attributes?

I'm thinking that perhaps your group would enjoy spending sometime reading all the postings on our boards... much would be learned and it certainly would provide some eye opening considerations.

Interesting that you continue to ignore the more revealing questions I asked of you. You have made several posting since but have 'danced' around/away from the questions still on the table.

No, I'm not going to list them again.  All questions are in the previous posts.

One of my 'gifts' has been right on target all along...right from the start of this thread.  ;-)

I am however, agreeable to discussions that will promote and advance learning/understanding of aspects of psi...but I'm pretty much finished with the 'test the TKR members' convo as 'it is what it is' and  has exposed itself as such.


modified to add:
P.T. BARNUM SAID, THERE IS A SUCKER BORN EVERY MINUTE!

waterway, somewhere around March 8, 2004

Whew.... I am really kinda scared to wade in here....

...but member#247 sure is getting a hazing for the little he/she has asked for.  No money has been requested, no secret handshakes, no vows to some nameless god....

Yes, there are opportunists out there bilking people, and we should be wary of such things, and honestly expose them.  

Yes, the request for "proof of skill" was kinda off the beam, unusual at worst though, not very outlandish.  Are they some secret cabal up to world domination?  No, M#247 not ONCE threatened us with his space-based ELF mind control ray.... which I know worried many of us cuz we immidiately donned our aluminum foil hats.... :P

And M#247's tone has been kinda nice, no outlandish claims, no arrogant threats, no telling us we are a bunch of dolts... pretty civil.  

I don't know.... it sounds like M#247 may not be an American or Westerner?  Is that the case Member#247?  Not every psychic or group of psychics is as interested in proving or researching as they are in doing it, and in this case charging big numbers for it.  

I keep saying I would love to do this for a living, so I am not gonna throw stones at someone who says they do.  

When I see where M#247 and his group ARE harming someone, then I will get angry.  And yes, the regulars here have been civil too, but M#247 seems to have hit a nerve..... which may be good for all of us..... to examine that.

.... or not.  I could be wrong.  It happens.  

But M#247, if your story is valid, I am sorry to hear about the car accident and the loss of your compatriots.  Good luck finding suitable replacements.

I am kinda excited to see how this thread plays out.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 8, 2004

[quote]Whew.... I am really kinda scared to wade in here....  

...but member#247 sure is getting a hazing for the little he/she has asked for. No money has been requested, no secret handshakes, no vows to some nameless god....  [/quote]

Not to be afraid Waterway  ;-)

What WAS asked for was this: our trust, cooperation, willingness to perform, the use of the TKR forum for purposes of self benefit of an unknown group etc.

This being the case, I felt it only fair in return that we have enough credible information on which to oblige M247. I don't see that it has been forthcoming...granted, he/she  (he) has been polite about not getting down to the nuts and bolts.


[quote]No, M#247 not ONCE threatened us with his space-based ELF mind control ray.... which I know worried many of us cuz we immidiately donned our aluminum foil hats....  
[/quote]

LOLOL... nah....Damien was already wearing the hat which is why he slid under the radar   ;), the rest of us got into the hats to be silly...except for me... ;-)...I'm thinking I may need a hat for my puter now.   ::)... I am just fine, but my puter is having a stroke here!!   ;-)

[quote]And M#247's tone has been kinda nice, no outlandish claims, no arrogant threats, no telling us we are a bunch of dolts... pretty civil. [/quote]

hmmmmm ...he's kinda  said some doltish directed things and the his/her (his) niceness was starting to wear a little thin IMO. There were several remarks that someone wanting to make friends wouldn't have made...but this isn't about making nice...it's about who is this person and what support will they offer for the claims that have been made.

[quote]
I keep saying I would love to do this for a living, so I am not gonna throw stones at someone who says they do[/quote]
This takes us back to the credibility issue.  He 'says'...well, he has said a lot of things. If valid identifying information can be provided to back up the 'said' comments, achievements etc, then I think we are within our rights to ask for it. Eva made the point, which she fully expanded on and I just hinted at, about doing psychic work for unknowns.  I said right off the bat that I wouldn't expose myself psychically without knowing all I could upfront. Just because it is said that there is a target onto of the monitor doesn't mean this is an 'innocent' test. It is very possible to unknowingly involve oneself in others agendas in the name of 'fun' or 'test'.

As I see it, too much avoidance has been a key give away here. I feel that anyone who presents themselves on this forum is accountable..just as I feel any human being is accountable in any aspect of life.  That M247 has gotten our attention (and yes, a nerve WAS struck) is because M247 played cat and mouse.

This group, TKR, abounds with great intelligence. I think we would really have missed the boat on NOT examining this 'test' as it pertains to our cooperation. It has also been a good learning tool for those wanting to learn more about RV and examining different facets of the same. I feel we have been fair and patient while trying to get this all sorted out. Many opportunites have been given in order to establish credibility which I think are REALLY necessary now given that M247's knowledge of RV and aspects of psi seem wanting/lacking.


[quote]But M#247, if your story is valid, I am sorry to hear about the car accident and the loss of your compatriots[/quote]

Of course...and we all should have said the same. Just because we are sifting and sorting here doesn't mean we are without compassion and empathy. Thank you for pointing this out WW.

admin, somewhere around March 8, 2004

[quote]...more than one gift?[/quote]
Imagine that.  The GIFTs normally arrive in a plain brown wrapper delivered by a secondary stork with the baby of course.  

Once in a rare while someone gets two gifts but the committee usually steps in.

Angel 1: This person has two GIFTS.  They are musical plus they're good at sports.  (This happened earlier today as well. That guy can psychically tune into more than one type of info--both feelings and tangibles.)

Angel 2: One gift is the max.

Angel 1:  But it's too late.  It was already delivered.

Angel 2: OK.  Well, we'll take one from them in some other life then.

Angel 1: But... then they'd have no redeeming talent left whatever for that life.

Angel 2: Yeah, but fair is fair.  They could still go on late night radio and talk about remote viewing.


I feel everything is energy.  Everything is information.  An emotion, at base, is no more or less 'energy' than a coffee table or an event or an idea.

I don't think of there being any such thing as 'multiple' psi 'gifts'.  There is simply "awareness."  Every human has that 'allowance of conscious awareness' to varying degrees and in varying ways.  Genetics and childhood and experiences certainly are a large part but conscious attention over time has a great deal to do with conscious awareness as well.  

I find it MORE likely that people with talent in one psi area will have it in others, not less.

In remote viewing as I know it--and I realize I am one person and we may all be a bit different--information is information.  Feelings are as likely to come through as tangibles.  (Sometimes moreso.)  

Actually there's lots of types of info.  Psi is psi, it doesn't come with labels ("John gets objects; Lisa gets emotions; Jack gets concepts." It doesn't work that way.  If John, Lisa and Jack are better at some things than others, that has something to do with them as individuals, not because they 'only have one gift'.)

You get what you get when you get it IF you get it and apparently it is the combination of the unique elements of the session, target, viewer, tasker, moment (and maybe other things).

Any halfway psi person associating with other psi persons will at some point experience some degree of rapport; of empathy with others and communication with those they're good with.  

I have tuned into people and had them tell me they sensed me, and what I was communicating, and when it happened, with no word from me (more than once); they were my 'target', in psi not RV, so obviously one CAN affect a target.... at least in real-time; who knows about offsets.  I suspect yes, but belief systems might interfere.

I don't find any of that very amazing anymore.  I do however find it amazing how many people can believe one little piece about psi and somehow 'exclude' every other piece.  Ironic, because the whole message of psi is that nothing is separate.

PJ

Member#247, somewhere around March 8, 2004

Well this is about it for me. I have answered you questions you have answered none of mine. I'm glad I've been a source of amusement for you.

Many other seem to have received similar attitudes from americans. Alot of the definitions you state as fact and standards of testing would be laughed out through most non-north american countries. You live in a country that is known for it's ridicule of psychic gifts.  It would appear just vastly different opinion exist in your country as to what is one thing is and what another is.

You fell that we are tricking "suckers" charging them enormous prices? We get result often in a matter of hours. This price includes flying and travel. I don't think this is such a rediculous price.

Waterway I appreciate your comments. The repeat poster already have decided that I don't know anything. There are others who have been civil and I appreciate their manner as well.            
       

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 8, 2004

[quote]Many other seem to have received similar attitudes from americans. Alot of the definitions you state as fact and standards of testing would be laughed out through most non-north american countries. You live in a country that is known for it's ridicule of psychic gifts[/quote]

I'll say it for ya EC   Yeeeee freakin hawwww   ;-)

Here we go:

This discussion had nothing to do with being American or not.  Last time I looked, credibilty was universal.

As for methodology, there are many...again, not an American invention.  Last time I looked, Psi was universal.

It was suggested that you read the free offerings explaining SEVERAL types of RV methods. Have you?...or is it just easier to now whine and play victim to our wanting some straight forward answers? We tried our best to have you help yourself...fell on deaf ears...you did it your way and now reap the results.

For the record, for all those reading this thread, I was not given any information regarding phone numbers, web site address or email address via private messages or personal email and as is obvious, not on these boards in any postings.

How silly to insinuate that we, this forum of psychic people, don't recognize psychic gifts. Before you go, just so you know for fact, this forums membership consists of not only Americans, but those from all over, Europe included and elsewhere...all are welcomed here...even when we don't agree.  This forum is about learning, sharing knowledge and experiences...man helping man....Americans or not.  Psi doesn't 'know' nationalities...it simply doesn't matter...period.

Don't turn your disappointment into an 'American' issue....it was NEVER this...it was ALWAYS psi and credibitly.

oh.....   and I would be the 'repeat poster'? If so, I never said you didn't know anything. I said you didn't know enough.  Big difference in any language, in any nationality.

modified to correct spelling. If I pay extra, can we install a spell checker?  pluuuueeeze   ;-)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 8, 2004

[quote]Imagine that.  The GIFTs normally arrive in a plain brown wrapper delivered by a secondary stork with the baby of course.  

Once in a rare while someone gets two gifts but the committee usually steps in.
[/quote]


OMG!!!  I have tears running down my American cheeks I'm laughing so hard. !!

This is so damned funny. (waiting to see what the bot does with this  ;-) )

That was great PJ !!  Thanks!

oooops....now we BOTH go to hell huh?  

Have fun spelling censor bot   ;)

yup, I'm in one of those moods  ;)

Matter of fact and I haven't done this for awhile now...

[move] Jommies is doing the happy dance !! ...American style   :-*[/move]

modified to add:  looks like the censor thingy is turned off  cause those 2 'testors' made it through   :P

Member#247, somewhere around March 8, 2004

You haven't even read what I wrote. I think American study of psi ability is completely unorganized. One group says one thing this group says another.

MY point is that  America has not  done legitimate work on psi ability since the 1950's. My training and understanding doesn't correspond with what you fell you know so you dismiss it without a thought.  I am in no way claiming to know all on psi ability but I'd hope you'd certainly say the same.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 8, 2004

[quote]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You haven't even read what I wrote. I think American study of psi ability is completely unorganized. [/quote]

I certainly DID read what you wrote and the above ISN'T what you said.

[quote] One group says one thing this group says another.[/quote]

This is true...but so what?  Religions vary from doctrine to doctrine and we get to choose which religion suits us best...same with politics and the same with all else in this world.  There is NOTHING wrong with differences, but it is up to each individual to understand the differences so that worthwhile choices can be made. Since when has ANYTHING ever been agreed on by all?

[quote]
MY point is that  America has not  done legitimate work on psi ability since the 1950's. My training and understanding doesn't correspond with what you fell you know so you dismiss it without a thought.  I am in no way claiming to know all on psi ability but I'd hope you'd certainly say the same. [/quote]

We dismiss without a thought??  You're kidding now right?...having a little fun?  These posting have been FULL of thoughts...thought after thought after thought.

I have no problems admitting that I don't know all...none at all. I don't and I know that I don't...and if I live to the ripe old age of 100, I'm still not gonna know it all.  However, I DO know what I know.

In fairness, I do have to say this M247.... I think some of the difficulties here has been due to a difference in presenting thoughts.  While you may be THINKING one thing, what you say presents itself differently via the typed word....and it has been these very things we (all who have posted besides myself) have been trying to sort out. We are trying to be fair and have given ample opportunity for you to have your say, but when we get down to the nitty gritty, you become defensive instead of being a best friend to yourself by using the opportunity to gain what you came looking for.

Think about this.... we create our reality. If we don't like it, we can change it....  just a little psi formula for better living.

Your frustration is obvious as well as your anger. Let it go. When you decide to leave us, go in peace, not anger. We tried...certainly you can see that we did.

admin, somewhere around March 8, 2004

I believe the US research into psi ability from the late 70's to early 90's is by far the best in the world. Those primarily involved in the 90's had access to the Russian stuff when the wall fell and people defected or shared, so they're aware of what was there as well.  The chinese make fabulous claims but many of their documenting videos look edited like crazy so a lot of it isn't trustworthy.  

Since the mid 90's, when research in this country crashed hard with the end of the projects now cumulatively called STAR GATE, most of the leading psi work has been done in Scotland and Italy, and some in Japan.  A little still here, not much, although May's lab has been funded (to varying degrees) since that time, and his (et al's) current work on pre-stimulus response is the most replicable and provable work on psi in history it's looking like.... -- we'll see.

247, you may have something about differing cultures, at least in your particular case.  I use that term not in a national sense, but in a family/personal sense (next door neighbor families can have very different cultures, where I am from, in many ways).  

You see in the culture I am from, when one wants to get to know others, or feel out what they know, or hang around to see who they might find, they go into a group and they say something along the lines of hello, I am interested in this topic. And then they join in with existing threads, and maybe bring up their own topics.

It is so common it's actually boring at this point, for persons to come into remote viewing-related areas and say, "Read my mind.  Prove it.  Tell me what's under my pillow.  Prove it.  I could make a fortune with good viewers. so prove yourself and maybe I'll hire you."  

I run an RV website, and I get the "I'm ready to make money and pay you so prove yourself" spiel in private email several times a year for eight years now.  For the most part, these offers are mostly grapenuts (fruits, nuts and flakes).

This is not your fault. However as they say, it's the 95% in some fields that give the other 5% a bad name. ;-)  You follow on this legacy that everybody is weary of, even disgusted with, of on many levels.  To you, you may be sincere, but to many viewers, you are just Prove-It-Nut-#247 with the same song.

Perhaps they should not blame you for coincidentally sounding like those who came before.  Perhaps you should not blame them for getting sick of the same spiel and after awhile, reacting badly to it.

Perhaps this is also a cultural issue (the RV term was coined in an American lab, so we tend to think that the general understanding here ought to be had by everybody using that term), but your understanding of remote viewing is significantly different than ours in many areas we consider fairly critical and I might add, fairly fundamental.  This has harmed your credibility a good deal, and combined with the above notes on what-came-before, that hasn't helped.  

It may be merely different ideas, different ways to do things.  But as you know, people get accustomed to what they think is right, and someone simultaneously claiming to be some kind of expert, while demonstrating a serious lack of even basic critical knowledge of the subject (from this perspective), tends to make people take them less seriously.  It may be that in your own groups you are knowledgeable and we simply have a different set to measure by, and would look equally bad if we were questioned by your group instead.

But, you came here.  So, being in Rome, a good strategy is to do what the Romans are doing... just have a decent discussion.  This is a discussion board.  We welcome people here to join us, including you.  

This is not an advertising board.  I considered moving your post off this board because it is, essentially, advertising.  If you wish to post a mysterious want ad-cum-challenge for viewers, a board dedicated to discussion will usually get people wanting to know what makes you think they care about your demands, needs or challenges, when they are here to have a discussion, not jump through hoops for everybody who drops in and demands it (and there are plenty).

In a subject/field simply rampant with self-described experts, borderline schizophrenic wanna-be's, pseudo-skeptic scoffers and trolls, the combination of 'mystery', 'demand-challenge', and your lack of smoothly fitting into the RV 'culture' here (in terms of assumed givens about the topic) have combined to make it impossible for you to accomplish whatever it is you wished to accomplish. (Assuming you did not wish to have people rant at you until you left, which seems to be all that has really happened.)

This board is for discussion; it is not for demanding anything of anybody else besides conversation.  You will need to post any future advertisements, however covertly they may be presented, somewhere else please.

You are welcome to stay and talk with us if you like... by which I mean actual discussion. Everybody is welcome.

PJ

P.S.  Bring your hat.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 9, 2004

    PJ, I knew you would take care of the history part of M237 comments and you touched on something that I took to bed with me last night and didn't sleep well as a result (along with the American thing)...which is:

[quote]But, you came here.  So, being in Rome, a good strategy is to do what the Romans are doing... just have a decent discussion.  This is a discussion board.  We welcome people here to join us, including you.[/quote]

M247- I will bascially say the same thing, but in a different manner.  I lived in Europe for 3, almost 4 years. While living there I always knew I was a guest in someone elses country. As a 'guest', I had certain responsibilites - which were - 1. it was MY responsibility to understand the culture and the ways of the country I was living in. 2. I never ever expected the native people to 'do things my way' in order to accomodate making my living in THEIR country easier for me. 3. When differences showed up, it was MY responsibilty to dig into the whys...for ME to understand THEM. There are more, but I covered the ones germain to our dialog.

The one thing I learned is this: world wide, people are people first and everything else is secondary. We all have the same basic wants and needs. When this is realized and understood, it's not at all difficult to get along with any person from any culture...no matter the differences. We are ALL human beings which levels the playing field and the rules of the game of human life are these: honesty, consideration, diplomacy, trust, cooperation, respect...and yes, there are plenty more, but if the ones I listed are mastered, the rest come easily.

I will be out of town for the next 2 days should my absence be noted....(or cheered depending on who is doing the noting  LOL )I have no idea if this thread will grow while I'm gone, but if it does, I will catch up on my return as I want to be sure there are no misunderstandings on what I've said to you...in this post or in previous ones. If there are, I want to be sure to be able to make myself clear to and for you.

Should you decide to leave the forum before I return, as PJ did, I wish you well. If you remain, then I look forward to discussions of RV..likenessess and differences. Ya know M247...we, all of us, actually have the same goals in mind...that of using psi as best we can and know how to. We ALL are constantly learning and examining the process. Psi, in my opinion, is innate to all of us, but 'using it' is a discovery process and the applications are vast.

Have to go. I'm running late which means I'll be speeding on the turnpike....again....still    ;-)
But so far, NO TICKETS !!  ..... yet   ;)  (maybe cuz of my hat?   LMAO!)

waterway, somewhere around March 9, 2004

PJ said:

[size=1][color=Orange]"In a subject/field simply rampant with self-described experts, borderline schizophrenic wanna-be's, pseudo-skeptic scoffers and trolls.... "[/color][/size]

Okay, now you are just hitting TOO close to the bone.  

That is getting a bit personal  Hey, I didn't mention here that you prefer to be referred to as "The Jazz", okay, so back off.  And as for those shoes, here's a news flash ....macrame is dead... move on.

Wheww... that felt good.... 8)

But seriously folks, I really am impressed with this thread, the remarks have been constructive, truthful and inviting.  Well, except for the ones I just made... sorry about that.

Now M#247.... where exactly are you?

.... and tell me about your training methods.  If you guys can produce so efficiently and quickly, there must be something to them.  We are all eager to improve ourselves, I hope you can help.

Damien, somewhere around March 9, 2004

    Ok, I'll play. :P

  Since no one seems to be interested in your test, I'll post this in public just for fun.

  I didn't actually target the object, instead I targeted you.  While there are many questions of ethics involved in doing such, I considered your requests as well as the claims you have made to be justification of further investigation.  I hate viewing frontloaded so my data on you could be off, but I do not believe you are exactly who you claim to be.  You appear to be very young.  Your intent is malign.  I shouldn't wish to be a part of your organisation.   But the object on your computer looks like a bird with its wings tucked to its sides, standing on two legs.

  You might do well to lighten up a bit.  The tinfoil hat comment was made in jest.  I do apologize if you took offense.  -)o realise as well that, if one has no ego one can never be offended  ;)
                                          Damien

admin, somewhere around March 9, 2004

Waterway, I'll have you know macrame is RETRO cool.  Be nice or I'll tell everyone how I viewed you in that little red nightie.  Just 'cause you say I'm wrong doesn't mean I am.  I bilocated.  I know.

I was thinking maybe if I etched Enochian symbols into the forward corners of my hat, it might be a double whammy--spiritual protection as well as from those cosmic rays and your Evil Machinations.  

Hey, I could glue a paper pyramid to the top, then I'd get more energy to my brain for viewing.  And I could layer the tinfoil with cloth perhaps, as an Orgonian accumulator.

The last hat I made got so charged that when I took a break in the session and went to get a drink, my head stuck to the refrigerator door.

PJ

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 9, 2004

This is Mother Earth calling to daughter PJ....


Up your meds honey....your scaring people   :o

To son Waterway....

you are being carefully monitored

Over and out

Member#247, somewhere around March 9, 2004

It is fairly obvious now to me that it is cultural differences that cause the greatest problems here. These scams that occur to your message board all the time I should have taken into accordance. I know that America is rife with people like James Randi who ask you to prove prove prove and then still discount it. But there would never be the outcry I've received here if I did the same in a messageboard in Japan or New Zealand or Australia. I've stated many times that the Christchurch group is very short on members. They are also have a long que of cases needing their services.

Waterway again thank you for your comments. I will correct you on one thing though. The training process is not quick. While it is quicker if you are already experienced it still takes some time to not be consider a trainee or student.  I spend about half my time in Japan and hlaf my time in New Zealand (Where I'm currently at) but I often travel much of the world. Training for a "Viewer"  consists of first testing to see the extent of ones abilites and then training to see if these abilites can be strengthened. This is usually by working over broader and broader ranges, often with the aid of the other groups who we in turn aid in training. Strengthing include ability to remain viewing an area but also perception skills such as recall of all items seen. After time they then began training with those with other gifts and combining abilities in ways that are useful but to grow in ability but also to work as a team.  The actual training varies anywhere from 5-15 years depending on the individual and gift they have. "Viewers" tend to take the middle of the road on years in training. But despite getting a postition training never really does end. THere are twice a year week long classes. These are both a refresher and update on wahts been going on in research.

Damien i'm sorry but that is not correct. I've already given up on this test since everyone says it's inappropriate. The item was a ruby ring in a silver setting. I would not consider 30 being that young (If you do that is of course your opinion). If maligning is trying to restrengthen the New Zealand group by adding some of your number (or reshuffling members) so that the NZ group is fundtional then yes I'm guilty.

waterway, somewhere around March 9, 2004

....red nightie.... hehee.... absurd!  

..I certainly do NOT own a red nightie.... so stop all that "monitoring" stuff.... red nightie.... what a laugh...

...red.... burgandy... rose... whatever!  I don't own any of those.... nighties..... per se..... NOT one!  

.... ridiculous.... hehe.....  :-[

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 9, 2004

[quote]I certainly do NOT own a red nightie[/quote]

OWN? ? who said anything about owning?

Just because there are pictures doesn't mean you OWNED the nightie, the pics only mean that you were WEARING the nightie.

Eric....how can we package your foil hats and these pictures of a man in a red nightie?...and ideas?   ;-)

waterway, somewhere around March 9, 2004

.... >:(....

And besides.... at least a nightie is like "real clothes" people might wear!  Not like a "tin foil hat" that you people go on and on and on about!

"Oh look at me.... I am wearing a foil hat!  Look at me... look at me...."

or

[color=Blue]"Hey, lets staple a picture of sponge bob on our TIN FOIL HATS  and dance about!!!"[/color]

tin foil hats
tin foil hats
tin foil hats

For crying out loud!  At least a nightie is comfortable!  -)oing RV requires comfortable clothes, okay!!  All the RV books say you need to be comfortable!  

You can jump around with your funny shiney hats with Nieztche quotes written on them and all that... but a person cannot sit comfortably to do RV with red lights shining into the ping-pong balls over their eyes while listening to Yanni?  

I'm just trying to do science, okay?

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 9, 2004

[quote] but a person cannot sit comfortably to do RV with red lights shining into the ping-pong balls over their eyes while listening to Yanni?  
[/quote]

OMG!!  This is all too funny !!   ;-) ;-)

ok Waterway.... it's time to up your meds also  ;-)

LMAO!!

admin, somewhere around March 9, 2004

You might wanna watch that joke pdpj.  It's a topic many people are sensitive about in a field on the borderline of crazed. ;-)

Yes, waterway, you should be comfortable, so you can keep the red one.  But please return the black leather.  I'm having company this weekend.

I hope he won't mind the hat.

PJ

waterway, somewhere around March 9, 2004

[color=Red]"I hope he won't mind the hat."[/color]

tch..tch.... like he'll notice the hat....

Okay.... ahem... back on task here.

So Member#247... thanks for the information you provided.  

The RV that is done, I guess its an ERV type of process, the RVers goes into an "altered state of consciousness" and gets the requested info.  Are monitors involved to assist them to stay on task?

Where did this program come from?  So much of the RV world here is offshoots of the old US government program.  Is yours sort of a home-grown psychics service now using the term "Remote Viewing"?

Its all very fascinating.  Thanks for sharing.

energycritter, somewhere around March 9, 2004

OK you all, the true technique for dressing best for RV is to put on a thong, flip-flops and a took with ear covers….then the data really flows…. ::) ::)



M#247, thanks for the feedback on your psi test and thanks for admitting that you are not 82 years old as your profile indicates…that did seem to register as a NON-truth as I partially hinted towards that being the case in my address of possible member bashing in a previous post of mine….thanks for the apology of the so called bashing..... ;)

I am curious though, how did, or do you, plan on getting feedback on your claims of knowing the talent or, lack there of, of the members of this forum?... :-/

You mention there being three, possibly four, that are talented to some degree, but, how would you know if you are correct, or, is that what the test thingy was for?

It would seem to be very easy to fall prey to delusion if you simply make the claim, believe your claim and then never really know by ample feedback or validation of such claims and thereby not know if you are actually able to perform such observations of other humans in the manner that you claim.

Even the results of your psi test would not be considered ample feedback or validation of your claims, although, I am the farthest from being able to know anything about formal feedback, other than what I have learned by reading this board and books and firedocs and suchlike, but, the question still stands.

How would a person get any feedback on such claims as one’s psi ability without ample testing and tasking and feedback and more validation through hours and hours of analyzation and suchlike?

I guess you could simply contact the members that you feel through your group’s MT to be talented and then ask them and they can say something like, “well of course I am talented, all you have to do is ask and I will tell you so.” LOL……I am being sarcastic of course, but, to prove a point, the point is, the truth would be hard to determine, therefore, your overall testing and claims are still hard to swallow no matter how polite these postings on this thread ever become or continue to be.

If you ask a wise person if they are wise, their answer should be, “NO.”

If you ask a liar if they are a liar, their answer should be, “NO.”

If you ask someone who is well exercised in psi and its related Self-awareness, if they are talented, there answer should be…..?... ;)

M#247, realize that I have been silly in portions of this post of mine, but, I do not mean to offend, I really do want you to consider what I have asked. I do want to know how you and your group do what it is that you claim to do. Although, I understand that you mentioned that it is done by MT, but, again, how will you validate such claimed MT results?

I do not claim that it is not possible for your claims to all be completely correct, I simply would like to know by what standards or protocols you would employ to make sure that delusion is not the result of any claims made by any human.

Reality is so “UGE” that it can hold as much delusion as humans want to fill it with, so, I am simply looking into how we humans together can keep reality as clean as possible and as free, as possible, from any errors and whatnot that would make our endeavors to learn truth about it without making ourselves that much more off the correct path of evolution.

Again M#247, I am not saying that what you claim is not possible….I can believe a lot of big things, but, through RV and the study of it, I have learned a lot about protocols and the need to not muddy the waters through any added delusion from my own speculations as apposed to solid valid feedback and correct thorough analysis and suchlike before I feel like an achievement has actually taken place.

So, ignore my sarcasm if it bothers you and please consider my single question regarding feedback and validation for your group’s MT results.

ec

PS, I enjoyed writing that while reading everyone's dressing tips.....YEEEE HAWWWW

:) ::) :P

admin, somewhere around March 9, 2004

[quote]Are monitors involved to assist them to stay on task?[/quote]
I love my monitor.

[center][img]http://www.firedocs.com/remoteviewing/humor/monitors.jpg[/img][/center]

Member#247, somewhere around March 9, 2004

[tt]The RV that is done, I guess its an ERV type of process, the RVers goes into an "altered state of consciousness" and gets the requested info.  Are monitors involved to assist them to stay on task? [/tt]

They do not really go into an altered state of consciousness. It is just concentration on the most part.  Say if someone dropped some glass and it broke the viewer would be aware of that and likely started. There really aren't monitors. There are for example MT or others who record whats going on and may be observing or focusing in on the object.

[tt]Where did this program come from?  So much of the RV world here is offshoots of the old US government program.  Is yours sort of a home-grown psychics service now using the term "Remote Viewing"? [/tt]

Dr. Rhine did much of the beginning scientific work in America. Dr.Hirschman was the founder of our groups. He was a contemporary in America. I wrote some of this in one of my earlier posts.  America said their was no scientific proof for his work and so he moved to Switzerland. He was funded first by University of Zurich but was later funded by independent backers and founded the Hirschman Mind Institute. This institute  been doing research on mind abilities ever since.  There a few other European institutes and research departments along with the Hirschman institute that formed a panel called Psychic Gift  Study and Advancement (PGSA). Through it's relations in this group it came into contact with universties mostly who were intersted in hosting a satellite Hirschman institute usually associated with a  university. It was through this that the other groups came into existence. The terms and such we use are accepted in the majority of European countrys. (Exception being France which does not accept any idea that originate from France and Italy which seems to have been spurned by the PGSA sometime in the 60's). It also occured in the 60's that one of the original institutes backers wanted to locate some "items" which disappeared during World War 2. The items were located and Dr. Hirschman (and later his son who took over) felt that by offering services out that the institute could be financially independent if need be but also be able to perchase any equipment or items it needs. The other groups asked their host countries to create similar services there. All of them agreed except for a group which we had in England. The government also asked for Oxford to end its association with this group and it was closed. While they tend to be "home-grown" there are many individuals from nearby countries who are trained in the nearest group to them. But many individuals who choose to work for us ask to work in a different country.

EnergyCritter: We really haven't done this sort of test before. But it is similar to what we'd normally do. We give an individual a certain number of tests. Depending on the results we would send an Empath (such as myself) and some others and conduct some more tests. THe other option is the person comes to one of our institutes if they live near one. Either way the Empath quickly determines in a person is lying or not.

As to "frontloaded" testing and how your subconscious creates false answers I'm beginning to feel that since we do test and train with what you call "frontloaded test" that individuals over time grow in their ability and learn to get the true result. As I've said we've never dealt with type of test American groups seem to favor. Perhaps this is giving us discernment that isn't be developed to some extent in America.  I will need to contact the Lake Havasu group and get their opinon on American psychic tests.  

EricT, somewhere around March 9, 2004

NM-

Thanks for hanging in there and explaining things.  Really, it shows some maturity on your part, even though you got a bit raked over the coals re: frontloading and double blind.

I highly, highly suggest you search here on the boards for double blind, and frontloading.  They are big concepts in RV.  Sounds like your group is at times working partially frontloaded (IE, find this person = I know the target is a missing person, vs a volcano, elvis, or a banana) and single blind- you mentioned at times there is an empath in the room who knows the true nature of the target.  The latter is of great concern- well they both are- but alot of bad popularized RV data has come from monitors leading thier interviewees in a certain direction, be it knowingly or unknowingly.  THis data shows RV in a bad light- wanna avoid that.  Plus, you also have the possibility of- a highly debated concept- telepathic overlay.  Where one person might not say anything or lead the RVer, but THINK it... yeah.  You guys use telepaths, so you say, I would assume to that end you believe in telepathy then.  You can see where the info leak would be then.  

Theres possibility for all manner of little info leaks and whatnot- double blindedness keeps the lid tight no that, when it can be done.  I started a thread on that, and PJ and Gene both wrote some excellent points on the subject, go check that out.

Again, thanks for sticking around- we arent here to run anyone off the board, but the real lowlife debunkers, hehe.

BTW A few days before you posted we got hit with 2 such malicious individuals.  Your test also is almost identical to anothers on a different board, who was a similar bad mannered debunker.  Soo...  you can see the circumstances that would make us suspicious.

That said, I am enjoying reading what you have to say, so do continue.
;-)
Eric

Member#247, somewhere around March 9, 2004

The empath is their soley to check in the individuals be talked to. Or if someone (such as a person who has  confidential stolen corporation materials) if with a sought item has been found. In this case parts of the team stay behind at the request of those hiring us. We know nothing extra about the information than the "viewers".

As for psychic bleed in (What you call psychic overlay). Now this is a concern. But years of training with others seems to most often prevent this. This is not to say that a overstressed or for sometime overemotional MT could not affect a "Viewer". This is another reason a empath is often present. If a MT is "bleeding" is really messes with us Empaths. We only read them and its hard to read much else. We are aware of this and the MT is talked to and asked if he/she wants to be replaced in this job.

Now when we are testing a individuals we are about to train we do have safeguards which is sort of more like th double-blind set up. If i was part of a group set to test if someone is actually skilled. We first ask them if they can do what they say they can. But whne they are given a RV test if I am the one to be "reading" them to see if they are being honest adn all I will not know the location of the item. I will receive a phone call after the person tested has given their answer.

I will again state that we do not really feel that indivudals tend to have multiple gifts. Now some Hirschman specialists say this is because if we find someone to be gifted in some area we focus on that gift and train them in this. They say that this may prevent them from developing other gifts. Some of these same specialists state that this is no problem because those who did appear to have multiple gifts  seemed to be either below average in their gifts or one was acceptable (useful in group job) and the other being nearly neligible.

I going to be passing on the contacting of RV's in the message board to a MT who regularly does this. I am very interested though in the vast difference in training and methods use in America vs. much of the rest of the world.

P.S.
Don't believe I mentioned the age goof on my profile. I suspect I double typed and put 21 on brithday and as year too. Anyway it's corrected as is the hated location answer I put.

wizopeva, somewhere around March 9, 2004

Well here is the prob I have.  I just don't believe this story and I do not feel I am alone in my concerns.  Your claims are seductive it is true, but the lot of it seems more like a vague storyline on TV.  Even your statements about psi seem to follow common TV lore.  

Here you said, "Perhaps this is giving us discernment that isn't be developed to some extent in America.  I will need to contact the Lake Havasu group and get their opinon on American psychic tests. "  You have insinuated some type of superiority in method and culture without knowing anything about ours.  You have also made a lot of vague and unverifiable claims.   Your 'explanation' of training methods was particularly vague.  

Not only have you insinuated superiority, but you have asked for a test.  A number of our rv people have done live TV demos in a variety of countries, so at least we have something to point to.  Your group however has not one thing to show it's existence other than vague claims made by you.  I don't understand how you can say you have a need for secrecy but then freely talk about your group on a forum that is completely open to the public.  So I say, if it is fair for you to come here and demand a test, then perhaps it is equally fair for us to demand a test of you.  

I now have something on top of my computer monitor.  I will make this test as fair as possible.  Please describe what I have on top of my monitor or have one of your people do so.  I promise I will be as fair as possible about this.  The thing in question is there now and it and only it will stay there until you either make your determination or indicate that you do not wish to.   THis test is open to anyone who wants to try.   I too am curious to see how rv stacks up against this other claimed and unnamed method of psi.  If I turn out to be wrong, then I am willing to accept my mistake.   LOL, maybe I am not an empath eh?  Or maybe I am..
-E

 

Member#247, somewhere around March 9, 2004

I'm not a viewer. I've stated that before. I did not claim everyone here is a fake or that you are all phoneys if you did not see the ring on the monitor. I did want to test level and distance of some individuals who I had hopes of adding to the diminished group here in New Zealand.

If you wish me to make guess than I will. I see a whitish blue stuffed animal with puffy fur. Seems it is sitting on a book. Ah and there is a clock nearby.

If you want perhaps then I will get a "viewer" to do it.

I never made a claim to secrecy. I did state that our clients identy are confidential. And that we do not have advertisements place all about. We do not need to advertise and we do not feel like getting calls from James Randi and friends anymore. I also did not state in depth information on "viewers" because a) Do you want me to write a 20 page message on this board on the beginnings of the vast training procedures and policies we have? (I wouldnt even if you did) b) I have had some experience in RV training though more as an assistant because again I am not a viewer but a Empath. Other than the combined training I do not attend training sessions with "viewers".

As for the "TV" feeling you get only you would know why you feel that. We don't get many American shows here and the few we do I wouldn't watch (And never deal with psychic abilites). My guess would be that perhaps those doing shows in your country got basic info from a European books or perhaps contacted someone in Europe and you are seeing our view on "gifts" and not the American view.

energycritter, somewhere around March 10, 2004

[quote]


EnergyCritter: We really haven't done this sort of test before. ..... Either way the Empath quickly determines in a person is lying or not.

 [/quote]

OK M#247, I think I need to clarify something.

Lying is what you did on your profile, that was not a delusion, that was simply a lie and I have noticed that you corrected the age thingy as well as made a partially, somewhat, ostentatious (I just like that word and I have not used it in months, so, I dropped it in just for my own giggles) rendering of your longitude and latitude of your exact location, that is kind of cute and I like that little touch of whatnot.

I guess if you really wanted to be adding that for shock value and esoteric punch, you would have obtained a copy of the ancient Taoist rendering of the original text of the Back Figuring Charts used by the ancient wizards. After some internal gazing and whatnot, you could have really ‘wowed’ me with a rendering of such. Now that would have been too cool and I would have really liked that and possibly not even been silly about that, most likely I would have become your favorite proselyte, since I do enjoy ancient China.

So, back to my point, my silliness does get the better part of me and I do enjoy a good silly spew when things get silly.

My point M#247 is that my use of the word delusion was not referring to actually deliberate falsifying of truth as you did when you rendered your age on your profile. My mention of delusion is a long the lines of someone thinking higher of themselves than they should think. Like a four year old thinks when they feel that they are the fastest running human alive the first time that they run and actually beat their dad, because he allowed the boy to win, to the refrigerator to eat the last bite of chocolate cake. The little boy really thinks that he is so fast because he beat his dad, but, when the boy grows up and experiences a few reality checks, he becomes more familiar with reality and thereby declines to make such foolish claims about his ability. That is the delusion that I am referring to, not lies, but, unintentional, exaggerated and exploited claims about one’s self and/or abilities.

It is by the strict employment of the RV protocols (double/triple blind and no frontloading) that this delusion is flushed out and prevented to gain a hold on a person’s psyche. If a person does not keep a close eye on this type of delusion, they can end up messed up in the head (psychic injury, sort of). If a person does not keep a close eye on the actual lying, as you defined delusion, then the results tend to be more external and other people end up being affected and thereby not too pleased with the Lie. The delusion that I am referring to tends to deliver internal damages that may not be evident to those that have the damage or to those that are external, but, it can be determined to exist after enough cross-examination of the facts, after which, if the person where to continue on the path of my defined delusion, then the delusion could turn into blatant lies and a complete searing of the conscience and the sky is the limit on how much internal damage that can possibly ensue.

So, lying needs to be avoided and delusion needs to be avoided.

ec

:)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 10, 2004

Haven't read all your posts EC, but wanted to post regarding similar concerns, but I don't think ours will cross in content.

Haven't read all your posts EC, but wanted to post regarding similar concerns, but I don't think ours will cross in content.

M247- you made a comment about remote empathy not existing. You claim to be an empath. Are you saying, for instance, if I were the target for one of your groups viewers and YOU were the empath 'in charge', that you would NOT be able to tap into my energies to read them?...or are you saying that if your viewer said I was 'happy' you would check your viewers energies to 'read' if the viewers statement was true or false?

also- about truth vs non truth: You say YOU are the one to confirm a truth or not via your abilities as an empath. So, does the person you are verifying need to be in your actual presence for you to do so and/or can they be in the next room or somewhere in the same building?

more on truth:  all of us have posted many things on this thread. Are you able to discern BY EACH PERSON those who you believe are being truthful or not?

I'm trying to have an understanding of what you are explaining to us.

Member#247, somewhere around March 10, 2004

EC:It doesn't matter if you believe it was a typographical error or not.  I have put say July 25th and then 1921 then perhaps you would have more to go on but I simply put July 21 1921. Why? I haven't the foggiest but I did.



[tt]M247- you made a comment about remote empathy not existing. You claim to be an empath. Are you saying, for instance, if I were the target for one of your groups viewers and YOU were the empath 'in charge', that you would NOT be able to tap into my energies to read them?...or are you saying that if your viewer said I was 'happy' you would check your viewers energies to 'read' if the viewers statement was true or false?[/tt]

Reading the viewer is all I could do. But even this is just their assumption of emotion. WHile we do have the utmost confidence in our memebrs an empath assures that for whatever reason we are getting the actual truth from everyone. We are there more often though to make sure we are getting the true story from our clients and at the clients requests information from an individual who is the subject of the case.

[tt]also- about truth vs non truth: You say YOU are the one to confirm a truth or not via your abilities as an empath. So, does the person you are verifying need to be in your actual presence for you to do so and/or can they be in the next room or somewhere in the same building? [/tt]
Actually being present is the general preferred way of doing things. If the person is in another room  and alone we can do it as well but the more people with the subject the harder it becomes due to psychic bleed in.

[tt]more on truth:  all of us have posted many things on this thread. Are you able to discern BY EACH PERSON those who you believe are being truthful or not? [/tt]

Ahh would that I could. But no I can not. If so an empath could command enormous sums of money working for companies and such. It doesn't matter I enjoy my job as it is and what I do.

I'm trying to have an understanding of what you are explaining to us.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 10, 2004

[quote]also- about truth vs non truth: You say YOU are the one to confirm a truth or not via your abilities as an empath. So, does the person you are verifying need to be in your actual presence for you to do so and/or can they be in the next room or somewhere in the same building?
Actually being present is the general preferred way of doing things. If the person is in another room  and alone we can do it as well but the more people with the subject the harder it becomes due to psychic bleed in. [/quote]

OK..breaking this down further for clarification:
1. is sensing/ discerning 'truth' as you determine it as the 'selected empath' the same as being empathetic?..or an empath?

2. The person being present would be the 'viewer' not the person/thing being viewed?

3. If the person, 'the viewer', is in another room and YOU ,as 'the empath', are able 'to do it' as you said above, then would this not be remote empathy?

I see that the ability to 'read/tap into/discern/ anyone, anything (truth being included) at a distance no more than that of 'out of physical sight' as being 'remote'

I'll wait until you have had a chance to read this before saying/adding more.

Member#247, somewhere around March 10, 2004

This board loves keeping me up late.  :)


[tt]1. is sensing/ discerning 'truth' as you determine it as the 'selected empath' the same as being empathetic?..or an empath? [/tt] determining truth is just a smaller part of reading the emotions. I would say it is the same as being Empathic and a Empath.

[tt]2. The person being present would be the 'viewer' not the person/thing being viewed? [/tt] Viewer is the short name we cal Remote Viewers. It is the only way in which I use the word "viewer". The person/thing being viewed would be the subject.

[tt]3. If the person, 'the viewer', is in another room and YOUas empath are able 'to do it' as you said above, then would this not be remote empathy? [/tt]  You could call it this but in the sense that even the weakest RV could search a city and the best empath could not I and most of the specialists at H.M.I. would state something such as global searching or scanning farther than you could travel under your own power is truly  "remote" usage of a gift. So it is a bit of yes and no. The read is vastly superior if you get a visual of the individual the farther one goes the more bleed in and problems there are. "Viewers" though don't seem to have much of this problem at all (At least those I've dealt with).

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 10, 2004

[quote]This board loves keeping me up late.[/quote]  ;-)

[quote]  
2. The person being present would be the 'viewer' not the person/thing being viewed? Viewer is the short name we cal Remote Viewers. It is the only way in which I use the word "viewer". The person/thing being viewed would be the subject.
[/quote]

The person, in this case, would be the same as 'the viewer' because: you stated that you as 'the empath' discern that of the viewer. So let me rephrase my question for you.
    Are you, as 'the empath', able to read/tap into/discern/evaluate 'the viewer' for the purpose of determing truths or other required information as you, 'the empath' see fit to needed, if the viewer is physically in a location other than in your direct presence?  phewww..pant pant

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 10, 2004

Out of curiosity M247, were you alone when you posted your last response..or the last few ?

Let me ask it this way - I feel the involvement of another person regarding your postings.  This is in no way a critisism or meaning anything more than the question I asked. I am merely stating 'a feeling' and wanting a confirmation of yes, no or other explanation if you don't mind.  Not a test for or of you either...only that of testing myself  LOL    :P

modified for further information:

don't get hung up on the use of my word alone. s I don't simply mean physically alone....this involvement could be via fax, phone, internet or other means of communications.

waterway, somewhere around March 10, 2004

...curiouser and curiouser..... ;)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 10, 2004

....and  thensome   ;)      

;-)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 10, 2004

Hope you are getting some sleep   ;)  cuz I still have hours left in my day for more questions  ;-)

Here is a PSI situation that is quite common the world over.  For the sake of this particular discussion, lets not confuse it with 'remote viewing/protocols' as has been mentioned in regards to your test. According to your groups training, understandings etc, please comment on the following:

Using the internet, between people whom have never met, is it possible for one person (the said psychic) to read/tap into the other persons (the 'client') energies for the purpose of acquiring accurate information as it pertains to the client?

.....in particular, if the client were allowed to ask 3 questions with scant information, such as
1.  What do I need to know about my work situation?
2.  What do I need to know about my health?
3.  Someone I know is most unhappy...what can I do for that person?

and the psychic responded with accurate information/insight this would be considered to be what?? in your groups training?

If this is confusing, I will rephrase again if need be.
The key factors here are these:
1. distance via the internet
2. 2 persons unknown by each other
3. Limited information provided to the 'psychic'
4. Accurate verifiable factual information/insights provided by the psychic to the client.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 10, 2004

LOL   ;-) ;-)

I just remembered I said I was going to be out of town for 2 days and away from the computer...  heh heh...
well, I am out of town, but have been GLUED to the puter  (like ya all didn't notice  :P)

I finished my work early in spite of being on this forum almost non stop and am headed home now. The trick of course is using the foil hat correctly.

I'm in a hurry to get home, but not so much of a hurry that I speed fast enough for the foil hat to blow off which is what assures me that the troopers won't notice me cuz I'll be invisable. ::)

I left enough food for thought M247. Have at it all while I'm in transit  ;-)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 10, 2004

Made it!!...with no tickets.....and geez....not a peep, not a word posted since I left.

Too bad T-bone hasn't been in on this one...his perspective would be interesting also.

I wonder if we could mentally 'call' him to this thread?   :o

If we could, this would make it 'what'?  Remote influence?

Member#247, somewhere around March 10, 2004

[tt]Out of curiosity M247, were you alone when you posted your last response..or the last few ?

Let me ask it this way - I feel the involvement of another person regarding your postings.  This is in no way a critisism or meaning anything more than the question I asked. I am merely stating 'a feeling' and wanting a confirmation of yes, no or other explanation if you don't mind.  Not a test for or of you either...only that of testing myself.    

Don't get hung up on the use of my word alone. s I don't simply mean physically alone....this involvement could be via fax, phone, internet or other means of communications.  [/tt]

I'm in an personal office. There are people outside my office at their own desks. It is a temporary office though. As I stated I spend about half my time in Japan and half here. This office did belong to one of the people who died in the car accident. A janitor comes in here to clean twice a week. Other than that no one but myself is allowed in this office.

Don't get hung up on the use of my word alone. s I don't simply mean physically alone....this involvement could be via fax, phone, internet or other means of communications.  I am on the phone alot conducting business with the group in Japan but also calling specialists in Japan. Much is also done through this computer in contacting various members as well as writing to this messageboard.

[tt]Are you, as 'the empath', able to read/tap into/discern/evaluate 'the viewer' for the purpose of determing truths or other required information as you, 'the empath' see fit to needed, if the viewer is physically in a location other than in your direct presence?[/tt]

We could but but bleed in and such ,as stated, increases alot when I ,or other empaths, don't have visual contact with the person. So it really doesn't serve a point to work this way. So we just work within visual range.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 10, 2004

[quote]Let me ask it this way - I feel the involvement of another person regarding your postings.  This is in no way a critisism or meaning anything more than the question I asked. I am merely stating 'a feeling' and wanting a confirmation of yes, no or other explanation if you don't mind.  Not a test for or of you either...only that of testing myself.    

Don't get hung up on the use of my word alone. s I don't simply mean physically alone....this involvement could be via fax, phone, internet or other means of communications.  
[/quote]

you replied:

[quote]I'm in an personal office. There are people outside my office at their own desks. It is a temporary office though. As I stated I spend about half my time in Japan and half here. This office did belong to one of the people who died in the car accident. A janitor comes in here to clean twice a week. Other than that no one but myself is allowed in this office.

 I am on the phone alot conducting business with the group in Japan but also calling specialists in Japan. Much is also done through this computer in contacting various members as well as writing to this messageboard.  [/quote]

Thank you....not exactly what I meant though. Let me try again.

When you are posting on this board and replying to our questions/comments, do you make your responses after having discussed these issues etc with someone of your group?...or are your comments of your own thoughts only?  I have the distinct feeling that there is another (or a few) others involved in the commentary besides yourself.

As there is access to others just outside your door, it would be easy to discuss our (yours/ours) progress
with them as well as to discuss aspects of the dialog here right?...just as we (the forum) are doing amongst ourselves. Would this be correct?.... that you are discussing your/our postings with others in your group?

You mentioned the deceased friend of yours as having used your office. Would you know if this man had any connection to the state of New Jersey?...and if not him, what about anyone else in your group having a connection with New Jersey?

When you say you spend 1/2 your time 'here'...is this 'here' in New Zealand?  (I'm too tired to go back through all these postings to see if you've already told us this).

I look forward to your addressing all the other questions I asked. I think once we all have an understanding of our (yours/ours) definitions etc, we all be able to communicate better than we have been...but, we're getting there aren't we? We are moving forward now into sorting out the differences and likely will find that our differences really aren't that much different after all....once we all get on the same page here...keeping apples with apples so to say.

Likely, your day is just beginning. Mine is ending and I'm off to bed which will give you lots of time to answer the other questions.  :)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 10, 2004

Darn...tomorrow I will not have access to a computer.

I'm thinking that if I wear what I've just learned about the proper remote viewing attire I might be able to change the no computer situation a bit  ;-)

Let's see if I have this right .... I will need to show up wearing a red nightie and a thong with flip flops and an ear thingy topped off with my foil hat...with or without a pyramid...is this is?

This should go over well in an Amish country Pharmacy don't ya think?   ;)  I will be doing the happy dance when the tell me to go home and get a grip  LOL  ;-)

Nite all  :)

Member#247, somewhere around March 10, 2004

Ahh now I understand what you mean. Yes I am of course talking with co-workers not only here in New Zealand (yes that is where I'm at now). But also with members in Japan and in Switzerland. This began as a result of my choice to try and locate possible peple for our group. Some felt that there were better ways to contact individuals. I do not though take a question asked to me and ask others in the office.

[tt]You mentioned the deceased friend of yours as having used your office. Would you know if this man had any connection to the state of New Jersey?...and if not him, what about anyone else in your group having a connection with New Jersey?[/tt]

It wasn't a man. It was a woman by the name of Judith Munro who was the "head viewer" her in New Zealand. She and the others died in a simple car accident on their way back from Greymouth. This is just the other side of South Island here in New Zealand.  

I am very curious as to why you asked this. Who is this person in New Jersey and what exactly happened?

energycritter, somewhere around March 11, 2004

[quote]EC:It doesn't matter if you believe it was a typographical error or not.  I have put say July 25th and then 1921 then perhaps you would have more to go on but I simply put July 21 1921. Why? I haven't the foggiest but I did.
[/quote]


Thank you for the explanation M#247, although, I am curious about the mention of the year 1921, I guess that has some connection to your original profile stating that you were 82 years old, well, actually, that would have made you 83 years old, if the year 1921 had anything to do with your date of birth. Hhhhhmmm, Oh well, typographical errors can be a real trouble sometimes..... :-/

:) :)

ec

Member#247, somewhere around March 11, 2004

no reason for the year other than its the day of my birth.

admin, somewhere around March 11, 2004

Are we losing the point of this thread I wonder.  Too bad, since it's in the running for the longest forum thread.  ;-)

247, Eric the TKR Viking has finally caroled me into giving him some of the remaining work for the TKR Galleries, so that part of the project can finally open to the public.(Yes that's carol'd, not cajoled, funny enough.)  

This is an online viewing facility that supports both practice and what we call 'missions', privately or publicly, for individuals or for multiple people who want to share what they're doing.  There would be plenty of opportunity for any group to work under a single registration, and given team efforts plus analytic review, surely that would produce a much better end product 'data presentation' than the individual viewers who'll be using it.  

When groups such as yours wish to demonstrate that (a) something really exists, and it is not just some anonymous person on the email making stuff up, and
(b) the group has some psi skill,
you'll be able to use the galleries to demonstrate.  

Just like one doesn't normally demand a resume if one can't evidence a company with a likely job, I am sympathetic that demanding viewing when one can't even evidence a viewing group--without being exposed to media, scoffers and attackers, etc.--is difficult.

However with the advent of the TKR Galleries, you can have anybody (or everybody) in your group, including remote viewers, from anywhere on earth, participate in viewing the double-blind targets.  

I am certain that in that format, your group could demonstrate its skill, and in turn, this would go a long way toward not only giving you credibility in this arena, but it's something online you could point anybody to for verification.

Obviously this would also allow individual viewers to share their work, which you might find of interest, but I suspect before anybody will submit a real resume/ session for you, you would need to provide some evidence beyond a pen name on the internet (which I'm sure you understand).

With just a little more harrassment we will finish these galleries up so they are available for the many good uses --this being one--such tools can be put to.

Hope you'll join us there.

PJ

JB_Brewer, somewhere around March 11, 2004

It was my intent at first to comment that I hope the persons your group contacts would offer those of us that are interested some parting advise on inproving our RV skills before moving on to the real world when I  realized something about the list of members for this board.  A few of the member are for example Dourif, Dr. Smith, PJ which are well know in  the RV community.  I am sure in that list of 309 people that other well know and capable viewers are there also using  names not commonly associated with them.  Humm I guess the 3 and one half world class viewers on this board are probably teaching RV or writing books about it so I suppose I should not hold my breath.   I wonder then should I take up another hobby more reflective of the lesser mortal that I am? Golf maybe? ::)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 11, 2004

    I logged onto TKR today M247 looking forward to more discussion on the examples and questions I posted for you yesterday.

    I am disappointed that you didn't respest them enough to offer any dialog but instead opted to focus in on your original profile identifications.

    I was beginning to think you were actually on the verge of wanting to learn about and discuss the differences between 'your groups' teachings and those of what we have been referrencing throughout this thread.

   It's obvious and has been for days now your original agenda(s) and purpose of posting on these boards is not going to results and manner in which you were hopeful. You were even prepared to leave the forum as you explained you felt we had not given you or your comments any thought.....and yet, here you still are.

    Some people really enjoy attention...having the spot light on them. You were in a unique position of having over 300 people keyed into this thread, reading with great interest all that took place and all this continues to take place. There will be an 'outcome' to all of this it just hasn't been official yet.  All of this will speak for itself and will be what it truly is.

    You had a perfect opportunity to make yourself, your group and its methods/results known and you blew it. Instead of promoting any advancement of new teachings/learnings, you found it better to use your time in avoidance and coyness. With great effort, a few of us have been able to get into some conversation with you about RVing, methods, protcols and the like....BUT IT TOOK A HUGE EFFORT to pull this info out of you when you could have so easily have used this forum and this thread to your great advantage.

    Why didn't you I ask myself.... why would this individual NOT make this a productive effort for himself. My answer is that you really having nothing to offer. At the end of the day, yesterday, today or tomorrow, you can't make a credible accounting for any of the statements, comments or opinions you offered.

    For days you have deflected, ignored, avoided etc. In good faith, even after all the monkey business, PJ extended a sincere invitation for you to remain and discuss as this is discussion board and she has now offered you/your group the opportunity to show its abilities.....the results will stand on their own. No matter who uses what method or what they know, think they know ,it's the results that will speak.

    I find you to be a very ambigious person M247. Frankly, I don't understand why you even want to be part of this forum. Your test didn't get done, I have no idea if you made contact with your chosen 3 1/2 people, I don't know if you have 'grown' your membership as a result of your being here (which would be a real astonishment if you have)...so why are you still here?  What is the payoff for you?  If you aren't getting what you came for what do you plan 'on getting' by staying?

    You had such a great opportunity AND YOU BLEW IT BIG TIME....but then, it's in the results that speak the story isn't it.  The story is that you can't produce credibility via the use of this forum. .....But Geeeezzzzz, we all recognized that fact days ago didn't we?  

    Too bad you aren't really 81 or 82 cuz then you would have been old enough to know better than to try the kind of operation you hoped for here.

Member#247, somewhere around March 11, 2004

JP thanks that does sound interesting.

As for people we might "take" from this group leaving advice before they go... We have not contacted anyone as of yet and those we do will still be able to do pretty much anything they did on this board before. They can offer almost any advice you'd want. They would though for example not be allowed to publish a training manual in PDF and post it here or say who they worked for and what they did. But this leaves alot open for anyone to discuss.

Polka- you are a very antagonistic person. I don't believe there are any questions I have not answered. You stated in the past that I did not answer your questions and I showed you that I did. I'm willing to again show you what I did and if I missed any I'll answer those.

I admitted a few days ago that my test was a failure. Partially out of views and opinions on this board but also because of my own lack of research as to this board. (I did do some but did not realize that some debunkers showed showed up just a few days prior to my posting the test).  As I've stated the prospective student locating has gone on to others. I am here soley out of my own interest in the differences between how America's methods, vary from others and the HMI. I was about to leave because you and some others were doing to me what you felt I was doing to you and this board (assuming you think I'm nothing and have fabricated all I've said and am just here to prove RV'ing to be wrong). There were later posters who have dealt with me in a fair manner and it is in thanks to them and my own curiousity that I have remained. I still feel that this group holds much promise for HMI and I'd hope that we can enrich the members of this board as well.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 11, 2004

quote]Polka- you are a very antagonistic person. I don't believe there are any questions I have not answered. You stated in the past that I did not answer your questions and I showed you that I did.[/quote]


.....and without a doubt, I truly believe you mean every single word you said about me being antagonistic!  ;-)


If I were in your shoes( operating and conducting yourself has you have) and had someone like myself asking for accountability/credibility as often as I have and someone not giving up or pointing out where the same is needed and necessary, I would be yelling antagonist also  ;-)

    Heck, who wants to be hounded by a truth freak when a person wants to avoid being exposed....who wants a balloon pricker in the parade....

Yup, for sure, I can be antagonistic ...all depending on perspectives/agendas.   ;)

Member#247, somewhere around March 11, 2004

No you are antagonistic because you have already prejudged me and why i'm here and what i'm doing. all my responses and all my statements  will not dissuade you from your preconceived notions.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 11, 2004

[code]No you are antagonistic because you have already prejudged me and why i'm here and what i'm doing. all my responses and all my statements  will not dissuade you from your preconceived notions. [/code]

....of course, this is your perception, to which you are entitled. However, true or not, I have given every opportunity for you to prove my opinions incorrect...opinions based on the content of your responses and the absence of your responses.

    At this juncture M247, you and I are parting company. You are making this personal now which is beyond the scope of this thread and forum. I'll not be goaded into mud slinging or the like nor will I subject the members of this forum to it. We will simply have to agree to disagree.

Member#247, somewhere around March 11, 2004

An excellent plan I was going to suggest the same thing. I wasn't going to "sling mud" no matter what.

admin, somewhere around March 12, 2004

[quote]should I take up another hobby more reflective of the lesser mortal that I am?[/quote]
LOL.  I've yet to see any actual omniscience on anybody's part besides McMoneagle's (and Swann's) and a few who are dead. We're all lesser mortals. Or perhaps I should say, they appear to be living on Olympus alone.  :)  PJ

waterway, somewhere around March 12, 2004

PDpj penned:

[size=1][color=Blue]"... you and I are parting company. You are making this personal now which is beyond the scope of this thread and forum."[/color][/size]

Well, it wasn't exactly "Radical Honesty" but I think the little discussion helped us get in touch with our feelings.... cart them out, and hang them up for examination.  Very healthy.  We dealt with some "issues".  

Yeah, I think the practice site is gonna be a winner.  We can see what others are doing, as well as document our own progress.... or lack of... in my case.....[size=1][color=Maroon]damn chafing aluminum nightie...[/color][/size]

T-bone, somewhere around March 12, 2004

Well hello everyone, did ya' miss me?  ;-)

I've been very busy as of late and thought I'd log on to check up and see what's been going on.  Hmmm, looks like you've been very busy on this little post (11 pages? Sheesh!)  I've browsed through it (little long in the tooth for me) but it appears to me that (forgive the pun) you HAVE beat the pervebiale "horse" to death, revived it with CPR, and then started beating it again.  :P  Looks like a lot of wasted energy.  

But, being the inquistively naive person that I am, I did send 247 the following message which I will share with you.  Please read it in it's entirety if you are inclined to read it at all.

"Greetings.  Please forgive the late response on my part, I would have messaged you sooner, but my day to
day routine has been anything but routine for the past 2 months.  I have been reading your posts here at
TKR, and you have raised my curiosity.  

Let me say first that you are correct.  There are 4 of us here, in my opinion, that are "truly gifted"
intuitively speaking.  But before I go any further,  as to who we are and how we can be contacted, I will
ask that you clarify for me a few details as to who you are and what organization you represent.

I would ask the following questions:

What is the name of the organization you represent?
What is your name?
What is your title within this organization?
Is this organization in ANY WAY tied to a Government agency?
IF so, what agency and for what country?
Is this a corporate sponsored organization?
IF so, what corporation(s) are you sponsored by?  
What is the mandate, goals and or mission statement for your organization?
How long has your organization been in existence?
What stage is your organization in at this point in time?

And one last question.  From what I have read so far, I gather that you are looking to recruit several
individuals for your organization.  You seem to be very interested in one in particular, the one that seems
to be able to block your "probes" if you will.  Why is this one individual of special interest to you?

Forgive me for asking for this information, but I learned long ago not to go blindly into the dark.

As far as your question as to the identity of the item on top of your monitor, no person here will answer
that until such time as they feel comfortable with who you are and why you are looking to recruit some of
us.  

It is my hope that you will understand and honor my request.  I will help you, but not until such time as
my questions have been answered and I am comfortable as to who you are, and what you are doing.

Sincerely
TBone "

"After re-reading my message to you, I thought I should clairify one thing.  If and when I am satisfied with your response as to who you are, what organization you represent and what you are doing, I will let you know how to contact me.  I will then pass on to the others here any info I have that they may be interested in.  They will have to contact you on their own, IF they feel it is appropriate for them.


Sincerely
TBone "


Couple of afterthoughts here, before anyone gets peeved.

1) I AM NOT ONE OF THE FOUR MENTIONED.

2) I CAN NOT AND WILL NOT, EVER GIVE ANY INFO OUT TO ANYONE, ABOUT ANOTHER PERSON, WITHOUT THEIR EXPRESSED WRITTEN PERMISION.

P.S. Did I every mention I like to fish? ;)  (think about it, you'll understand)

T-bone, somewhere around March 12, 2004

OH one other thing 247, please include a valid address and phone for your organization if you would please.

thanks

kboyken, somewhere around March 12, 2004

Web searches on various permutations of these items have drawn blanks:

 -)aniel Hirschman
 Hirschman Mind Institute
 University of Chicago
 Baden, Switzerland
 University of Zurich
 Psychic Gift Study and Advancement
 PGSA
Judith Munro

Karl

waterway, somewhere around March 12, 2004

;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

After lambasting M#247 for having the audacity to ask us to jump through hoops for him..... he's now being asked for everything but a blood sample.....

...otoh.... I'd be even more hypocritical than usual if I didn't say I am curious to learn the answers to those same questions.  Also, they seem like fair questions, since the story presented is so unusual... so unexpected.... so likely to be turned into a FOX-TV series...

I do hope though that Member#247 does stick around and share, if it all shakes out as legitimate.  His peoples would have a wealth of knowledge that could contribute a lot to our understanding of the PSI phenomenon.

T-bone, somewhere around March 12, 2004

LOL Hi again  ;)

I do have a way of cutting right to the heart of a matter.  ROFL... as my grandfather once told me, "if ya' piss on a fire, it will go out and the steam will make you feel nice & warm all-over, but when your done, you'll probably smell like piss too"  ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Hey, if he's ligit, let him prove it.  I have no problem with giving him MY info, and THEN do some formal testing if he's on the up and up.  If not, he can pack up and
scoot!

I have found when you ask specific questions of those having questionable stories/motives that they will either provide the proof, or squirm and slither away.

I don't ask much of anyone other than 2 simple things.  Honesty, and don't waste my time.    >:(

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 12, 2004

[quote]Did I every mention I like to fish?   (think about it, you'll understand) [/quote]

Yup, I 'caught' it  ;)

WOW....well speak of the  :-X :-X :-X   !!!  Look who shows up in less than 48 hours of my saying you should be in on this one!  ;-)  

I'm 'retired' from this topic now.... took my walking papers late last night  ;-)....  You can take my place in the 'quest for answers' seeing that you have asked many of the same as I've been asking.  Rots of ruck  :-*

BTW Karl, I found the same as you....zilch-o. Thanks for checking for those of us who wanted to know more.

Modified to define 'retirement'  :)
...as in not engaging in any further 'one on one' dialog with M247 on open issues (questions) already on the table. I leave the direct persuit with M247 for accquiring all the current unanswered questions to others who are interested in them.
... as are all of you, I am interested in where this all goes: how it gets there, what happens along the way and what's at the end.

    Now that the 'troops'  ;) have landed, I will continue in anything productive as it develops.

Fox TV huh? .... Wouldn't ya just love to see Bill O'Reilly with his hands on this one!  :o ...and wondering how wardrobe will handle the foil garment issue along with the other designated appropriate RVing garb.  :P

T-bone, somewhere around March 12, 2004

Hey, Like I said, I'm ready to jump right in and help ol' 247 IF he can provide me with some FACTS.  That's all I ask.  Heck, I don't care if he IS working for a goverment agency, just so long as it's the USA.  

But, like I said, FACTS.  Give me something I can confirm here in the real world.  

BTW, Waterway?  Nice bit about a movie on Fox.  I busted a gut on that one.

AND TO #247 - I've spent the greater part of my life in the US Military as an NCO.  I will not pull any punches with you.  You be straight with me and I will do what I can to help you.  But take warning, I can smell a Bul*shit*er a mile away.

OH WELL, Now we wait.   ;-)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 12, 2004

[quote]"You will know them by their deeds". Actions, not intentions, speak louder than words  [/quote]

.....taken from the quote on the very bottom of your personal quotes.

I too pay attention to actions vs. intentions and words that say much and yield nothing...and I don't just mean on this particular thread .  

This similar thought also comes to mind:  A man can be known by his deeds and the choices he makes.

Member#247, somewhere around March 12, 2004

Karl- I'm not suprised you didn't not find information on quite a few of those subjects. Personally named individuals like Ms.Munro are to be expected.

You could not locate anything on the city of Baden, Switzerland, or University of Zurich? Try looking up the university as Unversitat Zurich or universities in Switzerland.  [url]http://au.dir.yahoo.com/Regional/Countries/Switzerland/Cantons/Zurich/Cities/Zurich/Education/College_and_University/Universitaet_Zuerich/[/url] Here is yahoo's bit on much of the university.
Dr. Hirschman is a bit harder to find other than a blip of his name since much of his published work in America was pre-WW2 and after the Institute founding very little at all was published outside Europe.

T-bone I'll have your answers very soon.

Member#247, somewhere around March 12, 2004

Karl- I'm not suprised you didn't not find information on quite a few of those subjects. Personally named individuals like Ms.Munro are to be expected.

You could not locate anything on the city of Baden, Switzerland, or University of Zurich? Try looking up the university as Unversitat Zurich or universities in Switzerland.  [url]http://au.dir.yahoo.com/Regional/Countries/Switzerland/Cantons/Zurich/Cities/Zurich/Education/College_and_University/Universitaet_Zuerich/[/url] Here is yahoo's bit on much of the university.
Dr. Hirschman is a bit harder to find other than a blip of his name since much of his published work in America was pre-WW2 and after the Institute founding very little at all was published outside Europe.

T-bone I'll have your answers very soon.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 13, 2004

What we know so far:
I'm re-posting sources of possible verifiable information , as was offered by M247 as shown, for those who are interested. Note: to date, after several attempts to receive what was being offered, I have not received any of the information.

[quote]
Reply #27 on: 03/07/04 at 18:27:58 »
It is Dr. Daniel Hirschman. I don't know what you'llfind online. There are paper journals in psychology journals of the20's. Such as the Journal of Philosophy, Psychology and ScientificMethods

Reply #35 on: 03/07/04 at 20:17:59 »
We do not have website of the type you would like tosee. There is no explanation of who we are and what we do. Just asimple list of offices and emails and phone numbers and internalmessageboard for group members.  Corporations and governments know howto contact us. I do have a personal email I can give to you.  As tophone numbers I doubt you'd like to call New Zealand,  Switzerland orJapan? You could of course contact our group in Arizona but for whatpurpose?


Reply #39 on: 03/07/04 at 20:43:02
I will be most happy with the address of the web site you DO have and I will determine if it's what I wanted to see or not.
 
Oh....and I'll take that list of phone numbers as well...simple as it may be is fine with me....and sure, your email as well.


Re: On blindedness
               « Reply #4 on: 03/11/04 at 16:54:29 »
With the groups associated with Hirschman Mind Institute we  are very often operate in a frontloaded manner
Reply #5 on: 03/12/04 at 11:03:02 »                                                      
                                               Hirschman Mind Institute?  I've never heard of it.  Google brings up nothing.
 
Karl
 
 Reply #107 on: 03/12/04 at 11:28:08 »                                                                                        
                                               Web searches on various permutations of these items have drawn blanks:
 
  Daniel Hirschman
  Hirschman Mind Institute
  University of Chicago
  Baden, Switzerland
  University of Zurich
  Psychic Gift Study and Advancement
  PGSA
 Judith Munro
 
Karl

Reply #113 on: 03/12/04 at 19:41:34
Dr. Hirschman is a bit harder to find other than a blipof his name since much of his published work in America was pre-WW2 andafter the Institute founding very little at all was published outsideEurope.


[/quote]

Published Title names would be helpful.
Any/all European information would be helpful.
Any American information would be helpful.
Any of the offered information would be helpful.

Member#247, somewhere around March 13, 2004

Polka-Well you already have the only american journal title I'm aware of. Go to a univeristy and see if they have a Psychology library or perhaps it will be in the general library.

When you asked for any american, european, or offered information I am unsure what you are asking for. Do you want just general information (ask T-bone he already stated he post the answers to the questions he asked.) No matter what you seek I guarantee little will be found in America (except the already mentioned Journal articles). When T-bone posts' the answers you'll get a bit of an explanation why.

I'd also thought you resigned from this discussion.

Once again I've stayed up too late. Good night.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 13, 2004

[quote]I'd also thought you resigned from this discussion[/quote]

;-) ;-) ;-)

[url]http://www.tenthousandroads.com/wbbs/WBB.cgi?board=rvgenl;action=display;num=1078463486;start=110[/url]

[quote]Modified to define 'retirement'  
...as in not engaging in any further 'one on one' dialog with M247 on open issues (questions) already on the table. I leave the direct persuit with M247 for accquiring all the current unanswered questions to others who are interested in them.
... as are all of you, I am interested in where this all goes: how it gets there, what happens along the way and what's at the end.  
 
     Now that the 'troops'   have landed, I will continue in anything productive as it develops[/quote]

Damn....just like a woman huh?   ;)  LOLOLOL

admin, somewhere around March 13, 2004

Would you guys please stop.  You have so totally hijacked this thread with trivia instead of discussion!

PJ the Grumpy

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 13, 2004

Not totally, but I've stopped. I apologize to all.


modified to add:

     Looking back through this thread, I found many instances of light hearted, humorous postings. However, I have just deleted all those of mine that seemed to have caused concern re: EC and I.

jimk, somewhere around March 13, 2004

Ah...

I have not been here for a few weeks, I come back and lo and behold there is some interaction.

I cant wait to read what's in between page one and 13.

/getting my popcorn!

admin, somewhere around March 14, 2004

Mostly arguing.  Those are always the longest threads aren't they?  ;-)  PJ

Member#247, somewhere around March 14, 2004

T-bone ought to post the answers to the questions he asked me soon. I gave them to him the night he asked them.

energycritter, somewhere around March 15, 2004

[quote]modified to add:

     Looking back through this thread, I found many instances of light hearted, humorous postings. However, I have just deleted all those of mine that seemed to have caused concern re: EC and I.[/quote]


Mine are deleted too....sorry everyone.

Joe_Black, somewhere around March 15, 2004

Member#247

Your claims just don't add up. They are full of holes. Distance is not a factor in finding out when someones emotions intentions are, neither is time. And as for being in the same room, thats called reading non verbal communication not being empathic, its called looking at someone and knowing how to interperate verbal cues.  

Where is your companies offices give us a address? Where is your company registered? how does you company find clients as i have used every resource outside RV too find it and it does not seem to exist, why is this?

T-bone, somewhere around March 15, 2004

DARN IT!

Here I was, looking forward to reading pdPJ's and EC's posts.

Anyhow, 247.  Yes I did get your answers.  I will be posting them and search results sometime today.  I will be taking that one step futher, and will explain that step later, once I get THOSE results.  

T-bone, somewhere around March 15, 2004

The following is the questions I asked of and answers given to me by Member#247.

1.What is the name of the organization you represent?  
2.What is your name?  
4.What is your title within this organization?  
5.Is this organization in ANY WAY tied to a Government agency?  
6.IF so, what agency and for what country?  
7.Is this a corporate sponsored organization?  
8.IF so, what corporation(s) are you sponsored by?    
9.What is the mandate, goals and or mission statement for your organization?  
10.How long has your organization been in existence?  
11.What stage is your organization in at this point in time?  
12.You seem to be very interested in one in particular, the one that seems  
to be able to block your "probes" if you will.  Why is this one individual of special interest to you?


Answers given by 247

1. Formally our (my) group is known as Hirschman Mind Institute, New Zealand Branch.
2. My name is Jacob Theiss though I prefer Jake Theiss.
4.Region 4 Interbranch Facilitator.  
5.&6. We are not affliated with any governments though we do have persmission to operate from the countries in which have facilities. In cases where we work in other countries we permission if it is required. Some countries like Thailand for example do not.
7.&8. It was once corporately sponsored but we have since the 70's beomce self-sufficent by working for corporations and governments.
9. HMI simple mission statement is encourage and  continually strive to understand psychic abilites, aid, encourage, and strengthen those gifted with them, and promote understanding of these abilities in higher institutions. While this is the case it should be noted that HMI does not aid or assist the United Kingdom becuase of their government's involvement in the dismissal of the Oxford Branch. Attempts in the past were occasionally made with universities in America. There were rarely responses and as a result re-attempting contact have been shelved in favor of Universities that do respond.  *******  
10. Original group was created in 1934. Things really took off though after Dr.Hirschman worked with the University of Zurich and even more so after the foundation of HMI institute. HMI was founded 1951. Operative groups (which were hired out) basically began in1963.
11. Hmm that is an interesting question. We would like to say we are pretty stable. As stated earlier HMI has been around for some time and the operations groups as as long. We would like to develop some more satellite institutes, especially in South America, Middle East, and India.
12. Because we would very much like to discover how this is done and perhaps train others in this ability if possible. If not this one person will be very useful if there is reason to believe that someone might be trying to "work" on us.  

HMI -New Zealand

I'll be doing my searches today.  I will post my results as I get them.  

I encorage anyone else that is interested to do the same.

Thanks

T-bone, somewhere around March 15, 2004

I should have asked this before.  -)uuhhh!

Member#247, does the Hirschman Mind Institute have a website?  'cause I'm not finding anything on any of the search engines.

Thanks

admin, somewhere around March 15, 2004

T-bone, the moderators did not ask that they go through the thread and delete every 'non-serious' post.  That's just an overreaction of oversensitive on their part. This moderator merely asked that they quit hijacking the thread, after nearly a dozen messages between them that had nothing to do with it.  PJ

waterway, somewhere around March 15, 2004

I'm sorry, but this thread keeps reminding me of that scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail where they want to burn the witch.  

"How do you KNOW she's a witch?"

"She looks like one!!!"

LOL!  Okay, I admit I am equally curious.

But Member#247.... has your organization, over the decades, done any formal research, or have any texts for training?  I would be fascinated to see such things.  I have been hanging out at the Rhine Center a lot lately, and have been looking over the pool of research gathered there, but it sounds like your organization may have another resource that is relatively untapped by US researchers.  I get the feeling your entire schema of the dynamics of PSI is different, which may be a good thing.... at least it can provide a different perspective.

T-bone, somewhere around March 15, 2004

PJ,

Sorry, and Understood.  ;)

T-bone, somewhere around March 15, 2004

[quote]I'm sorry, but this thread keeps reminding me of that scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail where they want to burn the witch.  

"How do you KNOW she's a witch?"

"She looks like one!!!"

LOL!  Okay, I admit I am equally curious.
[/quote]

LOL, me too waterway, me too.

In fact I hope I can confirm what 247 has been saying.  I would not mind hooking up with a group that is actualy doing some work and research in this and other areas.  EVEN IF it was Gov funded, just so long as it was for the USA.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 15, 2004

Oh my..... all this drama     ::)
 
....anyone besides myself wondering why it's necessary that there be a 'spokesperson' reporting answers that have already been put on the table days ago.... that could have been answered directly ? ?  
 
Re: the deleted postings -  
I deleted mine not because I was asked to but in an effort to keep the flow of the thread intact as the postings were just fun stuff having nothing to do with the topic....as happens with all of us from time to time. I did it out of respect, not a result of being oversensitive.

energycritter, somewhere around March 15, 2004

[quote]Oh my..... all this drama     ::)
Re: the deleted postings -  
I deleted mine not because I was asked to but in an effort to keep the flow of the thread intact as the postings were just fun stuff having nothing to do with the topic....as happens with all of us from time to time. I did it out of respect, not a result of being oversensitive. [/quote]

same here.....I stopped posting as a compliance with the request to do so, then, the deleting was an after thought so that the hyjacked thread could be returned to the original state of being. No overreaction or oversensative, just nice humans at play is all....

;)

Member#247, somewhere around March 15, 2004

T-bone - The website we do have is member only messageboard. If i sent you to the site it would say simply ID # ID password and Group #.   It's never been meant to be for mass used it's more of a intranet of sorts that happens to be on the internet. HMI of Zurich is working on putting up a basic information site though. But the process of putting in in each of the groups languages as well as some over is a daunting task which I'm sure you are aware of.

The Arizona group is the only American group. They are quite small still though being as they were only started in 2001. They only work for corporations though as you may be aware that the Gov't prefers to use their own people and law enforcement can't afford their services.

Waterway- I will see If I can either get some the information in either a PDF format and post on a personal site or if the HMI has any infor anywhere else. I do wish I had more for you on this matter but most group members being that we work from the inside get specific information produced for our use.

waterway, somewhere around March 15, 2004

Member#247 stated:

[size=1][color=Blue]" I do wish I had more for you on this matter but most group members being that we work from the inside get specific information produced for our use." [/color][/size]

That is completely understandable, I didn't want you to "give away the store", so-to-speak.  What intrigues me is that you seem to coming at this phenomenon from a slightly different mind-set than those of us here who may have been educated on the same literature.  I don't know your way to be better or worse, but I think sometimes we benefit from a slight change in perspective, and could use some new grist for the mill.

...uh... not that there aren't already a bazillion unanswered questions to tackle, but if you folks in HMI are getting the job done as far as reliable RV goes, then the things you do to make that happen could really add a lot to our understanding, too.    If you were to simply comment on things we conjecture on, it would be a blessing to our education and skills as RVers.
[hr]

[size=1][color=Maroon]Just for the record, if it turns out M#247 is actually a warped teenager in Des Moine yanking my chain .....OUR chain....  I still think even malicious teens could "unconsciously" provide us with some insight even if they themselves don't appreciate the importance of it.  So that is why I am not worrying about HMI or any of that.  I am not here for the politics man, I am here for the RV... word.... :P[/color][/size]

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 15, 2004

Waterway said:

[quote]Waterway wrote:
          I'm sorry, but this thread keeps reminding me of that scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail where they want to burn the witch.



Just for therecord, if it turns out M#247 is actually a warped teenager in DesMoine yanking my chain .....OUR chain....  I still think even maliciousteens could "unconsciously" provide us with some insight even if theythemselves don't appreciate the importance of it.  So that is why I amnot worrying about HMI or any of that.  I am not here for the politicsman, I am here for the RV... word...[/quote]


          OYI... yanking my chain .....OUR chain----gee~~ do ya think?     

(Admin edit- MSN link thing again.  PDPJ, watch out on these,the link was a mile long.  -Eric)
                         ;)

T-bone, somewhere around March 15, 2004

[quote]T-bone - The website we do have is member only messageboard. If i sent you to the site it would say simply ID # ID password and Group #.   It's never been meant to be for mass used it's more of a intranet of sorts that happens to be on the internet. HMI of Zurich is working on putting up a basic information site though. But the process of putting in in each of the groups languages as well as some over is a daunting task which I'm sure you are aware of.

The Arizona group is the only American group. They are quite small still though being as they were only started in 2001. They only work for corporations though as you may be aware that the Gov't prefers to use their own people and law enforcement can't afford their services.

[/quote]

OK, I understand, but I need SOMETHING, ANYTHING that I can varify.  Throw me a bone here because I can not varify ANY of the info you have gave me so far, and I used to be a Private Detective!!  Either my skills are realy rusty, or this is a figment of someones imagination.

Throw me a bone dude!

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 15, 2004

[quote]I need SOMETHING, ANYTHING that I can varify.  Throw me a bone here because I can not varify ANY of the info you have gave me so far,[/quote]

...and while we wait, a good time for some meditaton ?

Meanwhile, perhaps we could employ some of Waterways patience by asking that the legit psi questions/examples, previously posted and yet unanswered, be addressed. In part, I agree that good knowledge is good knowledge. While I think credibility is still important in regards to how this thread came about, I also agree that if there is something to learn about PSI, then we should be doing that...learning...not waiting.

This entire forum has come to a stand still while this charade goes on. Surely there is life beyond this chasing of tails.....Interesting?  to a point. Productive? Not very.

Modified for correct phrasing:

...'for the tree is known by his fruit'.

(admin edit, removing MSN smiley, as its prompting some wierd MSN passport dialogues.  Sorry!  -Eric)

T-bone, somewhere around March 15, 2004

How about this pdPJ?  

We sit back and learn to wait patiently!  ;-)

Meanwhile I'll meditate "OHHHHMMMM"

;)

Member#247, somewhere around March 15, 2004

I find it very strange myself. Good old  http://www.wises.co.nz which I use myself  does not list our facility (which wouldn't normally suprise me) but it doesnt list those of our neighbors (car rental place and internet provider adn a mechanics store). But then I've always preferred a good old fashioned paper map to internet map searches.

Waterway- go ahead and ask whatever you want. The main difference I can tell from I've seen here is that we train by giving  "front loaded" tests. This allows the RV'ers to grow and understand what is "interference" and what isn't. This and training with those strong in other gifts is the main difference I've seen so far. But I wouldn't be surprised if there is more.


85312689-7535

Joe_Black, somewhere around March 15, 2004

http://www.companies.govt.nz/search/cad/dbssiten.main

The Company in question does not exist.

waterway, somewhere around March 16, 2004

Thanks Member#247.

You mentioned Dr. Rhine in a few of your posts, but were you guys influenced by the work of Ingo Swann?  

Is there a standard procedure for doing a tasking, or do you hand the viewer a target and come back later for the results?  I guess I am asking about the way your folks RV.  

Member#247, somewhere around March 16, 2004

Joe- you don't need to join that site. I'm not sure you are an international group. As stated before we don't need or want to advertise. We have enough to do as it is.

Waterway- We give the RV'er as much info as possible actually. A photo of the person or item, photo of house or business subject may be at as well.  We never have a "viewer" work case wise by themself. There is always someone with them. If for some reason work takes longer than 5 hours their is a mandatory 2 hour break (Our client is not billed for this time).

Informationwise we have had little to do with Ingo. You'll remember I mentioned about how HMI did some things during the 80's. The U.S. Gov't was having problems and hired some outsiders to handle some of their work. (Us and some other groups) Things like find this Russian or  Libyan person. Our work wasn't even confidential. We felt it was more testing our group and noting how we did things. Ingo's group got shut down and most of the people who had worked with Ingo formed their own group somewhat similar to ours (a few here say they copied us). It is interesting to note that governmental wise only the U.K., former U.S.S.R. and U.S.A have had actual running teams. U.K. doesn't care much for outside groups doing such stuff outside of governmental control. There are other nations testing stuff but not to the extent of these 3. And even with this both U.S. and Russia's group have been gutted or shutdown. We never actual met with Swann, his study and work developed after our own training methods were developed. We do share some of the same ideas on some points. Swann disagrees with some of our findings (mostly over the anyone can learn to do it factor).

waterway, somewhere around March 17, 2004

Member#247,

I am pleased with the information you are providing.  I admit I am not thoroughly educated on all the politics, names and organizations involved in PSI research and applications worldwide, so much of what you tell is news to me.  Honestly, that sort of thing has not concerned me.... but I am interested in method... and even moreso in what should be called "attitude" toward RV.  

As has been said repeatedly on this board, belief and knowing are important, and it sounds like you have the attitude of knowing.  

I have lots of questions, but one for now is:

What is your understanding of how RV works?  How does it differ from Mr. Swann's?

Is a theory of the mechanics involved even a concern of your group's?  Hey...that is two questions.... sorry.

thanks again for your feedback.

trypper, somewhere around March 17, 2004

A Braun Razor?  :-)

Member#247, somewhere around March 17, 2004

Trypper -I'm going to use my deductive skills to realize you haven't read most of the posts. THe items was revealed quite some time ago.

What is your understanding of how RV works?
RV'er focus on subject/item/ect and they hone in on an item but can also focus on a particular area and view the area. Both revolve around the "viewer" centering on an area. At first "viewer" just gets glimpses of and area or thing. Training increases ability to view an area or item for longer period of time and even to "travel" around a bit in the area.  Swann differens more in that he feels that anyone can learn RV'ing while we feel that very basic skill can be developed but  skillful use only develpos in those who already have talent in it. I suppose anyone could possibly overtime develop capable skill but it would take so long to train and develop skill that you'd be around 65-70 to be at the level of those who are talented in it.


Is a theory of the mechanics involved even a concern of your group's?
Could you restate this I'm not sure what you are asking about.

wizopeva, somewhere around March 17, 2004

Which test are you responding too, that of 247 or mine?  247 already gave his feedback.  If someone wants to bite on mine, the item is still on top of my monitor waiting to be described!  ;-)
-E



[quote]A Braun Razor?  :-)

[/quote]

trypper, somewhere around March 18, 2004

Actually neither. :-)

Member 247 reminds me of a British gentleman who asked the same question in The Black Vault.  That was the answer to his question.  As I recall, he wasn't a big fan of remote viewing.

Sorry for the distraction.

trypper

waterway, somewhere around March 18, 2004

I am wondering if HMI has a different understanding of where this RV information is coming from, ie how the RVer gets the information.

.... or does that sort of thing even matter?  As long as the RVer can learn to get the info, does it matter that anyone understand the "science" behind the action?

Member#247, somewhere around March 18, 2004

Where this infomartion comes from? We feel it is simply a greater part of the unused brain being used. CAT tests have show parts of the brain showing actviivty that do not during normal activity. There are some who say that you need to go into a semiunconscious state or others term "hyperconscious". But how wold easing or relaxing on'es mind able you to use a different part?  We would say you should work first on concentrating singularly on a item in your view. This allows you to shut out other things. (This info is thanks to guy in HMI group in Arizona who I just talked to). It is through concentration not relaxation that allows the mind to locate what you are after.

waterway, somewhere around March 18, 2004

So, if you will, describe a session.  

Member#247, somewhere around March 18, 2004

I sort of described on e a while back but here goes. We'd have say 3 "viewers", 2 MT's (mental telepathists) and a empath and usually a sketch artist/recorder who takes down things given from a "viewer" or MT. The three viewers would review the case file (information the client sets up on what they are missing and any details surrounding it's disappearance). The strongest of the three would sits down and scans for the subject and states what they see. The other "viewers" as more is stated begin scanning the same area or may take over "viewing" an area while the 1st moves to another area. MT as needed might scan a person in the "viewers" viewing area and pick up on what they can.

T-bone, somewhere around March 22, 2004

The following is my official (for what it's worth) response to this little "merry-go-round" we've all been on.  

This is the last PM I received from Member # 247 and my final response until he can provide me with anything concrete that can be verified.  

Just for your info, so treat it as such.

Thanks


[quote]Were you able to get information from Arizona office? Rufus said he was going to ask you some things baout yourself first.  I should have warned you that only one's own group or (if they receive permisson to do so) can give out their phone and address.

I don't see why he wouldn't thogh.

************************************
My response:

Well, I still have not recieved ANYTHING I can verify.  I did recieve an email from him, wanting to know why I requested the info, which I answered.  

As of this point, I have to believe your claims are false.  I am tired of getting the run-arround.  You can't provide me with ANY concrete info, all I get is smoke and illusions.

If and when you or your friends decide to provide me with somthing that can be verified, please feel free to let me know.  Untill that time, I will have to assume otherwise.  And, just for the heck of it, I will provide this little Tid-Bit of inspiration.  

You have been speaking with the forth person you were looking for all along.   ;-)

Let me know when you are through playing games eh?[/quote]

Like I said before, don't waste my time.  >:(

waterway, somewhere around March 22, 2004

Member#247,

I have to admit, T-Bone's logic is strong.  I cannot find any trace of the existance of any HMI or Daniel Hirschman or any of it.  I want it to exist.... I really do, and I am willing to go along like it does exist.... and work WITHOUT proof, since your information isn't essential to me... just fascinating.

So with that said.... tell me how a viewer "concentrates" during a session, please.

T-bone, somewhere around March 22, 2004

[quote]Member#247,

I have to admit, T-Bone's logic is strong.  [/quote]

LOL, I KNEW all those days I spent as a kid watching Star-Trek wasn't a waste!

"Spock", my would be father figure.   ;-)

Member#247, somewhere around March 22, 2004

T-bone I have contacted Mr.Wendellson he hasn't received any reply to what he asked. He again states that he is not going to give any information to without out reason. He wants to make sure you aren't employed by other U.S. groups Psitech in particular.

T-bone, somewhere around March 23, 2004

[quote]T-bone I have contacted Mr.Wendellson he hasn't received any reply to what he asked. He again states that he is not going to give any information to without out reason. He wants to make sure you aren't employed by other U.S. groups Psitech in particular.[/quote]


This is the content of the Email I sent him.

******************************************

Good Morning,

   The reason I am asking for this information is Mr. Theiss visits one of the RV message boards I frequent and he has made a few claims about  the HMI.  I am just trying to validate these claims.  I have offered to help him, but only after he provides me with some info on the group I can verify.  I do have a military background, but only in the normal sense.  I am not with Psi-Tech or any other organization.  I have been looking into several groups as of late.  I am trying to find one that has honorable goals and or purpose to serve the public in areas in which conventional investigations have failed.  My reason for this is simple.  I have these RV and dowsing talents, but no place to actualy use them.  I hope this answers your questions.

Thanks

Joe_Black, somewhere around March 23, 2004

Member#247 you have given no one a shread of evidence. Not a phone number. Not an address, not a PO box number. None of your infomation can be verified. For all my looking your organsation does not exist.

I have placed a object on top of my monitor. Tell me what it is. Now the burden of proof is with you. A nice frontloaded target for you, just as you like it.

You talk the talk... But can ya walk the walk?

T-bone, somewhere around March 23, 2004

LOL, subtle Joe, real subtle.  But hey, your absolutely right.  The Info I got could not be confirmed either.

I'm kinda curious here, so I'll sit back and see what ol' 247 has to say.

;-)

Things that make you go hmmm....  ;)

Member#247, somewhere around March 23, 2004

I'm wondering why you claim to have emailed Mr.Wendellson back when you have not. He has not received anythign from you.

Joe  T-bone has recieved address and phone number. He could mail whatever he wants. He has tried to call our number but gets no response which doesn't surprise me since with time difference and number of calls we get is not a shock.

As for dowsing I don't know where to begin. Simply put we don't use that.

wizopeva, somewhere around March 23, 2004

LOL, Joe Black has obviously not managed to keep up with every nuance of this 16 page long debacle, hehe.  That fact is that I have already many days ago made the challenge that 247 describe what was on to of MY monitor!  You snooze you lose, LOL!  As a matter of fact, the thing is STILL on top of my monitor and anyone who wants to is free to take a stab at it.  Now T-Bone, if you don't watch it, I may almost get tempted to  make the challenge to you too next!  ;-)  As it is, 247 has already said that since he's an empath, he is unable to do rv, nor apparently to ask one of his coworkers to do it.  This is why I do so like to often announce that I often suck at rv and you know, so far not one person has challenged me to prove it!   I guess I'm just the trustworthy type so everyone just automatically believes me.  ;-) ;-)
-E

T-bone, somewhere around March 24, 2004

[quote]I'm wondering why you claim to have emailed Mr.Wendellson back when you have not. He has not received anythign from you.

Joe  T-bone has recieved address and phone number. He could mail whatever he wants. He has tried to call our number but gets no response which doesn't surprise me since with time difference and number of calls we get is not a shock.[/quote]


OK 247.  Now your insinuating that I am a liar.  Just so you'll understand, I don't claim anything.  I tell what the FACTS are.  It's called the Truth, you might want to look it up in a dictionary and try it.

DO NOT ATTEMPT to challenge my honor.  Where, by God, do you get off saying I have not emailed him back, when you have failed, miserably I might add, to prove anything you have said.  You have not provided anything that can be verified, just here-say.  

For the record here is what comes back when I send "Mr.Wendellson" the info he suposedly requested.

*************************************

Reporting-MTA: dns; isis.pcis.net
Arrival-Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:34:48 -0600

Final-Recipient: rfc822; mindpup@eisenbock.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.4.4 (Permanent failure - routing/network: unable to route)

Your message has encountered delivery problems
to the following recipient(s):

mindpup@eisenbock.com
Delivery failed


Unable to deliver to destination domain
Cannot resolve eisenbock.com

Gee, Can anybody else here say " spoof address "?

*********************************
IF this group of yours does exist, WHY, let me say it again so you can grasp it, WHY are they so "secretive" with their information?  Could it be they have a LESS than honorable background?  Could it be they are using RV in a less than honorable fasion?  Maybe a little "Corperate Espionage"?  Maybe something worse?  I have to ask myself these questions because my instinct tells me something is wrong with this whole situation.

You want to attack my honor?  Bring it on you little twerp.  ANY of my background is avaiable on public record and speaks for itself.  I've SERVED my country with distinction and honor, and I can back it up with documented facts, while you can't seem to provide even a website address.

I will gladly PROVE what I have said to ANYONE HERE.  Those who wish a copy of the email I sent to this "Mr.Wendellson" please PM me with your email and I will forward you a copy.

And for the record 247?   Get bent.  

***************************************

My appologies to any of the TKR board and it's members that may have been offended by what I have said in this post, or it's tone.  I have said here what I felt needed to be said in a manner befitting this situation and this "individual".

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 24, 2004

[quote] Gee, Can anybody here say " spoof "?[/quote]


GEE,,,,SURE THING!   Count me in.

I can say it  [move] SPOOF [/move]

Seems to me I've been saying this since sentence number 1.

I've also said , in so many words, that I smell a dead fish here. I too T-bone, feel that something less than honorable involvement is at play here....as I've mentioned to others to date, I highly suspect motives and intentions. So ,in addition to spoof I'll add  [move]'USE CAUTION' [/move]  


modified to add:

    The original purpose of M247's 1st posting, as I recall, was mainly to 'recruit', from this membership, newbie viewers to increase 'this groups' team/force of 'whatevers'. It was stated that in fact, 3 persons had been identified as being 'prime candidates', however, these persons have NOT been contacted....which belies the original purpose?...I feel one of the real areas of caution here are for those (the  really new and zealous) who might be tempted to involve themselves with 'this group' on any level.

    As we all know, remote viewing works....and it works for those who have the ability to misuse people and data. If the viewers intent is framed in innocence, then results/data can be had ...if the same viewer approaches a target with 'caution/suspecions' then the resultant data will censor itself.

    I think the intelligence of this forum has been vastly underestimated by M247. I don't think such resistance was ever factored into the 'recruitment' phase of the plan.  Too bad those MT's didn't pick up on this aspect huh?...  ;)


....and..... I'm not going to modify again to correct spelling...I'm just gonna have to live with it this time  :P

waterway, somewhere around March 24, 2004

T-bone.... one word for ya..... [color=Brown]DeCaf...[/color]

::)Hehehe.... he called him a twerp....

Okay, I think this thread is deteriorating into.... I don't quite know WHAT it is deteriorating into, but it sure at least its still about "testing".  Yet, the tables have been turned... now member#247 has to prove something.

.... but as far a RV goes... this discussion isn't contributing, IMHO.

....now as for conspiracy theories though, its a jewel.  You see, the great thing about conspiracies is that the less you can find, and the more ragged the proof, the STRONGER the inference that a very well crafted cover-up exists....  

I only have basic cable, so this is the best entertainment I am getting....

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 24, 2004

[quote] I only have basic cable, so this is the best entertainment I am getting...[/quote]


;-)  LOLOL

when this comes out on DVD, it will be titled 'As the worm turns'   :-X

T-bone, somewhere around March 24, 2004

[quote]T-bone.... one word for ya..... [color=Brown]DeCaf...[/color][/quote]

Sorry Waterway and everyone else too.  I just won't put up with someone insulting my honor.  Now he's crossed the line.  This is where I stand.

OK.... pass the decaf...  :P

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 24, 2004

[quote] Okay, I think this thread is deteriorating into.... I don't quite know WHAT it is deteriorating into,[/quote]

Many, many years ago, (so I'm told  ;) ) there was a TV program called 'what's my line' where 3 people all claimed the same things...be it what they did for a living, notoriety, etc. The panel had to guess which of the 3 really was the REAL person and would vote accordingly. The MC tallied the votes and then said to the 3 contestants...'Will the real Remote Viewer please stand up"

..... well,.......this is kinda becoming that  :'(

.....except, the process here on this thread is taking waaaay longer to get to the bottom line.... I think we are in what can be called 'overtime'  ::)

....errrrr.....or....is it 'overkill' ?   ???


and....errrrrr......does it even matter?    :P

....and.... WHO will be left standing at the end of 'this made for late,late, late night TV' debacle?  

hmmmmmm

Joe_Black, somewhere around March 24, 2004

Domain Name: eisenbock.com

You can register it. No one owns it.

member #247 next time you bullshit, make sure you own the domain.

admin, somewhere around March 24, 2004

t bone, would you please be so kind in the future as to INFER he is a liar or twerp, rather than outright calling him such?  Name calling is flaming and I grant that's pretty mild but it's still namecalling. I'd hate to see the longest running thread in this forum end up on the fever board.

So... you got a phone# that doesn't work or nobody ever answers... and you got an email address that repeatedly bounces... and which turns out to belong to a domain that nobody even owns.

247, unless you have one of the best excuses of all time, I think you oughtta just hang yer head and back away slowly.  LOL.

PJ

Gene_Smith, somewhere around March 24, 2004

PJ, PJ, PJ,

Again with the misuse of imply/infer!!!

Don't make me get Susan in here to explain this to you again...

Gene

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 24, 2004

[quote] PJ, PJ, PJ,

Again with the misuse of imply/infer!!! [/quote]

...Gene, are you implying or inferring that she was being impish in her choice of words?  ;-)

...okie dokie....it seems that we are heading into the final roundup here... the line in the sand has been drawn and the suggestion of hanging ones head and backing away ......looks like it's going to be a fine day at the OK Coral  8)  

Maybe now is the time to boost up your cable choices Waterway....this show is just about over  :P

T-bone, surely you meant bending spoons...as in TK right? Yes,.... of course,..... this is what you were suggesting    ::)

So, now we wait for the last spoof....errrrr.... words  ;)

admin, somewhere around March 24, 2004

Aaaack.  Well Gene in my brain, the diff between those two words is kinda subtle.  Then again, my brain only has two cells (the one having been pixelated, a warp field effect that a previous charming TKR visitor brought up, and I really like).  So, since my now-two pixelated cells are usually busy counting each other, I can hardly expect to tax myself further with proper English.  (English.  Who needs it?)

I'll skip the assistance, thanks.  The only legal assistance I need is something to protect me from the totally bent former legals in this field. What is that joke about a town that can't afford to employ one attorney can more than afford to employ two?  ::)

I am wondering if it would really bend reality if one of the targets on the infinite monitors out there waiting to challenge us all, were in fact a tinfoil hat.  Would that create a psychic hall of mirrors do you think?  ;-)

I now have this concept in my head like, how do you know someone is a remote viewer?  They have some really weird object stuck on top of their computer monitor.  How do you know they're a newbie?  They actually think somebody is gonna describe it.

PJ

Member#247, somewhere around March 24, 2004

I'm sorry then Mr.Wendellson gave you a faulty e-mail address. The @mindpup address was phased out (as have all independent group emails in favor of a unified HMI email account. As of yet we do not have it and so have resorted to using yahoo mail. Email him at hirschfanger@yahoo.com.  I don't know why it even said mindpup@eisbock. his address used to be eisenbock@mindpup.com back when this was the Arizona site.

As for the test I posted what I felt on on the computer. I'd guess it's not right. I forgot about it when the "viewers" here had some availible time off. I'm be going to Japan soon they have a full team ill see if I can get someone to do it.

As to not being able to get information to you. I don't know what you want me to do. I've given you address and phonenumber.  There isn't a lot out there because A) its not out there for the general public and B)he stuff I have handed out had to be screen so that some things are not released.

admin, somewhere around March 24, 2004

In the next 60 seconds, I could create a yahoo alias for my account that would make ME seem like your official contact.  Somehow, especially with someone who's been a PI, I don't think the anonymous email address as proof is going to fly well.  

If you are legit, you have really screwed up this entire outing into the public.  It's too bad.  I was kind of interested, as I figure there must be psi groups out there, and so I give such the benefit of the doubt.  But it looks like either you're a big story, or you're so profoundly bad with communicating this entire situation you oughtta volunteer someone else to do the outing next time.

PJ

Joe_Black, somewhere around March 24, 2004

mindpup.com

The is no record of that ever having being registered. No record in any search engines caches either.

waterway, somewhere around March 25, 2004

Yep, looks like this little mystery is winding down.... It  just seems logical that an organization that charges ...what was it... $1500/hr and has existed since the 1930s and is worldwide and gets hired by businesses and governments... would have a bit more organization, say in the form of a website, or an e-mail server, or a phone number that works.  It would probably have a couple of each, actually.  But no, this organization is set up just like.... one person who made it all up... would be set up. :-/

Maybe I am wrong, maybe its SO successful they don't need easy access.  Maybe they have been working without organization for so long and so well, there is no reason to change.  Or maybe they are SO successful they actually have to HIDE from publicity and easy access.  

Member#247, I have enjoyed hearing about HMI, and I hope it remains as successful as it has been, even moreso.  

A new site is soon online that allows RVers to practice, and publish their sessions.  Please check that out and you can contact the successful RVers from there, and be spared the interogation and skepticism you are finding here.  

T-bone, somewhere around March 25, 2004

[quote]t bone, would you please be so kind in the future as to INFER he is a liar or twerp, rather than outright calling him such?  Name calling is flaming and I grant that's pretty mild but it's still namecalling. I'd hate to see the longest running thread in this forum end up on the fever board.[/quote]

Yes Ma'am, my appologies.


[quote]I'm sorry then Mr.Wendellson gave you a faulty e-mail address. The @mindpup address was phased out (as have all independent group emails in favor of a unified HMI email account. As of yet we do not have it and so have resorted to using yahoo mail. Email him at hirschfanger@yahoo.com.  I don't know why it even said mindpup@eisbock. his address used to be eisenbock@mindpup.com back when this was the Arizona site.[/quote]

247? You must (am I infering or implying here?) realy think we are a bunch of dead heads here.  He did not "give" me that email address, that is the address IT CAME FROM.  It's known as "Spoofing" an email addy, creating an "alias".  It's just not real.  Sorta like your whole story.  

Just give it up, hang your head, tuck your tail and scurry away.  (Err.. correction here...) I suggest that you just give it up, hang your head, tuck your tail and scurry away.

Or, even better, stick arround and learn something.  Just drop the BULLSH**, OK?   SHEESH!

Anyhow,

[quote]A new site is soon online that allows RVers to practice, and publish their sessions.  Please check that out and you can contact the successful RVers from there, and be spared the interogation and skepticism you are finding here.  [/quote]

One thought here, and I think it's been mentioned before: From Monty Python -

"We have found a witch. May we burn her?"
"How do you know she is a witch?"
"Well, she looks like one."
"They dressed me up like this."
"Augh, we didn't! We didn't."  
"And this isn't my nose. It's a false one."  
"Well?"
"Well, we did do the nose."
"The nose?"
"And the hat, but she is a witch!"
"Did you dress her up like this?"
"No, no.  Oh a bit. Yes. Yeah, a bit."
"But she's got a wart!"
"What makes you think she is a witch?"
"Well, she turned me into a newt. "
"A newt?"
"I got better."
"Burn her anyway!"
"Burn her! Burn! Burn her!... "

Meanwhile back at the ranch...

[quote]If you are legit, you have really screwed up this entire outing into the public.  It's too bad.  I was kind of interested, as I figure there must be psi groups out there, and so I give such the benefit of the doubt.  But it looks like either you're a big story, or you're so profoundly bad with communicating this entire situation you oughtta volunteer someone else to do the outing next time.

PJ
[/quote]

I agree PJ.  I was truely HOPING that this would pan out to be the real deal.  But, based on the facts on hand, (IMHO) just a line of b.s.

Oh well, maybe next time.   ::)

admin, somewhere around March 25, 2004

[quote]maybe its SO successful they don't need easy access[/quote]
That's IT!  Waterway, you've nailed it.  You see, they are SO PSYCHIC, that clients don't need to call them.  They call the client!  "We know who you are and what you need and what you're willing to pay.  We solved your problem of today last week, by the way. Here's our address.  Send a check."

PJ

T-bone, somewhere around March 25, 2004

Kinda' reminds me of that famous quote "We're from the Government, and we're here to help you."  LOL ;-)

Anotherdreamer, somewhere around March 25, 2004

Hello,
I have to say this has been the most amusing thread in quite some time. Thanks everyone. ;-)

jimk, somewhere around March 25, 2004

Hmm, amusing...YES
Waste of time...YES

/ Back to RV

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 25, 2004

[quote] Waste of time...YES [/quote]

.....as far as the time and effort producing worthwhile, I agree. But I do have to say that the process was an interesing one.......AND...... we got to know a few of the members better.  Like, did you know before all of this began that Waterway only has basic cable?....and that T-bone was in the military and that Eva has a target on her monitor now and forevermore  ;)..... we learned lots of neat stuff about foil hats- when , where and why they are appropriate. We now have a dress code for comfortable remote viewing apparel....lots of goodies abound in these threads  :P

So now it comes to this.... the posting containing the 'last words', the lights will dim, the curtain will close and the show will be over.  But hey!.... It sure beat watching paint dry....  or watching grass grow huh?   ;-)

wizopeva, somewhere around March 25, 2004

I am wondering if it would really bend reality if one of the targets on the infinite monitors out there waiting to challenge us all, were in fact a tinfoil hat.  Would that create a psychic hall of mirrors do you think?

Ok I may as well own up to what was on my monitor.  I looked around for something that seemed unlikely and difficult to guess and that would not cause PJ to want to kick me off my admin status .  I had recently cleaned the closet and had some weird stuff out as I decided if it was bound for goodwill or not.  So I chose out of the lot, one silvery colored wig and plopped it on the monitor.  The wig was long ago purchased as potential Holloween costume material.  

The joke about 'tinfoil hat' had not been taken quite so far at the time and I was not thinking about it, but perhaps subconsciously it influenced me.  But it was only just now that I consciously realized that to say 'tinfoil hat' would not be a totally untrue description.  The wig is made of whitish fibers interspersed liberally with silver tinsel looking stuff and it does in fact go on your head.   Is that absolutely hilarious or what!   8)  I have been sitting here this whole time staring at my tinfoil hat.  Hopefully it has protected my monitor from any evil thoughts!   ;-) ;-)  

-E  

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 26, 2004

[quote] But it was only just now that I consciously realized that to say 'tinfoil hat' would not be a totally untrue description.  The wig is made of whitish fibers interspersed liberally with silver tinsel looking stuff and it does in fact go on your head.   Is that absolutely hilarious or what!   [/quote]

Yes!.....it is funny..very funny  ;-)

but guess what  :o :o

Is it possible that the 'guess' of your target being a foil hat is beyond coincidence?. Personally, I have found that things I say, seeming off the wall or obscure from out of nowhere, often and quickly come to make perfect sense. I'd be curious to know if a little session or concentrated effort was put into play and the result was the impression of a tin foil hat?

As an aside: This thread has likely been read and followed by most of the membership. As such, Gene made an important posting in another thread that I feel is important for all to read. I am providing a link to his posting so it can be found and read quickly. I particularly hope that those new to RVing will take the time to read it.

[url]http://www.tenthousandroads.com/wbbs/WBB.cgi?board=rvgenl;action=display;num=1080283104;start=0[/url]

just in case the link doesn't work...the posting is made in the thread called 'gurus' in the same section as this thread.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 26, 2004

As we watch all of this coming to a 'welcomed end', I will feel better about mentioning a discomfort I had right off the bat with all that took place here. I was tempted many times before, but withheld for many reasons, however, I have discussed very briefly with a few people who are aware of this thread.

Without getting into deep doo doo here by inferrence, innuendo and implications, I say this - From the very beginning, I've had VERY strong impressions of Anti Americanism and governmental/political overtones....I even mentioned New Jersey in one of my posts and had specific reasons for doing that.  When M247 brought Americans into the convo, it was all I could do not to go further and really say what I've been psychically and otherwise feeling and aware of. I can only say this without opening a whole other can or worms.....EXTREME CAUTION needs to be used if and when considering any involvement with 'this group' and/or any person/group who will not, cannot, provide reasonable credible identifying information.

After all, there are those who claim to be able to be in touch with God on a daily basis, we can contact our President of the USA if we wish to do so and the same with the Pope....but not to be able to contact this group...????   phooooooooey    ok....nuff said, you get the point.

trypper, somewhere around March 26, 2004

I still think he is the guy from Black Vault trying to prove how dumb we all are.

trypper

waterway, somewhere around March 26, 2004

[size=5]"Black Vault?"[/size]

[color=Blue]What is the world is that?  It sounds.... sinister....  [size=1](insert Vincent Price laugh here)[/size][/color]

trypper, somewhere around March 26, 2004

http://www.blackvault.com/

admin, somewhere around March 26, 2004

;-) Why am I not surprised, I wonder.

PJ

trypper, somewhere around March 26, 2004

Because I'm so freakin paranoid? javascript:smiley()

trypper

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around March 26, 2004

I'm gonna do it !  I'm gonna do it !!  I'm gonna do it !!!

;-)

Enough time has passed for the famous, or not so , last words to be offered by the recruiting M247 & or group.....none have been posted....which is no surprise,( but is a relief). I think we have all had enough of dancing round and round to the same ole tune.

We have the longest thread on the board....20 pages....and all boiled down,  just a handful of words would have sufficed...a few examples: Sandcastles in the sky, sucker born every minute, what part of credibiltiy don't you understand? and I'm sure many more can be added by the rest of you.

The long and the short of my personal benefits of this thread is that my typing skills & speed  have improved   ;-)
....sadly, not so with the spelling...was always in too much of a hurry to work on the #^*$# spelling.

So, thinking that all that can be said has been said in 20 pages, I will offer the blessed relief and call this epic topic concluded and ended.....  as in .....

                  [size=4]THE END ? ? ? .....      OR[/size]

[move]       [size=10]THE END !![/size]  [/move]


The show is over and I don't know whether to clap, jump up and down,(this would be an almost 'jommies happy dance') wish there was another 'hot topic' to replace this one or just  mumble 'boo' toss rotten tomatoes.  ;)


.....and just because I said  'the end' sure doesn't mean that ya all can't continue on  :P  

See ya all on a nuther thread ...my antagonism here is finished  8)

admin, somewhere around March 26, 2004

[quote]Because I'm so freakin paranoid?[/quote]
HAHA! ;-)  I mean the tinfoil hat on monitor.  So actually your comment was sort of doubly funny! ;-)

wizopeva, somewhere around March 26, 2004

Is it possible that the 'guess' of your target being a foil hat is beyond coincidence?.


The longer I am involved in psi, the more I look at 'coincidences' in a diff way.  
-E

Stewen, somewhere around May 26, 2004

Is your name Christopher by any chance?


Stewen 8)

admin, somewhere around May 26, 2004

Aaaugh!  This thread was a..l..m..o..s..t......g..o..n..e.... and moving way down the list of notice Stewen... lol!

Stewen, somewhere around May 26, 2004

Yes,I know.
Why not revive it? ;)
Seriously,I got this job offer at Grillflame.com as a rv:er for his company and that guy also asked wierd questions.His name was Christopher.I was just curious.


Stewen 8)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around May 27, 2004

Snickering ......

Way to go Stewen ! ;)

Last I heard, the name was 'wiedersehen'  ;-)

.....and if you read all of his topic postiings, it's not likely he's gonna reveal his name at this point  :P .....and if he did, who would believe ?  ::)

If he has landed on Grillflame, which is very likely, you did yourself a huge favor by having read this topic.

Now, may it rest in peace  LOL

Stewen, somewhere around May 27, 2004

[quote]Snickering ......


Now, may it rest in peace  LOL
[/quote]

Ok. Subject is closed. :)

Stewen 8)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around May 27, 2004

Amen ?  ;) ?

Amen  :)

admin, somewhere around May 27, 2004

As much as I just hate to post on this thread, I feel I ought to on one point:

I don't know the fellow who contacted you from the Grillflame forum.  But the guy who runs Grillflame, Rob, seems a pretty good guy, and runs a lot of project work.  

I don't know much about the detail, but there are lots of little groups in RVland that work on various stuff, to whatever end, and many are fun, harmless, and have nice people in them.  There is really no way to tell what any group is about except to get involved with it and observe.  

Best,
PJ

Stewen, somewhere around May 27, 2004

I just have to say this,Grillflame is a great group and Rob is a great guy.
This caracter I'm talking about was probably only fishing
for something and he disappeared after a few posts.

Can we leave this now ,I'm so sorry I even brought it up. :-[ ;)
;-) ;-)

Stewen 8)

justme, somewhere around June 20, 2004

itsa grey/white ceramic bunny like thumper out of Bambi-the movie, about six inches tall, 3 inches in cercumference w some little gold sticker on the bottom w a black border stating its maker and a little number three on it. there is a purple flower plant near by similar to an african violet, a two pane widow that you hear too much traffic out of, the walls are white, you posted this within several hours after your girlfriend took a shower in the room to the left of you facing the computer screen. she burns food.(don't remote the stuff i cook, you might get a bad taste if you empath like i do too much) you are both trim, but you don't consider yourself athletic enough. at the time of this posting there is paperwork all around your area, but it all fresh, a project you are doing, because on the floor immediately behind you there is a poster in black and white of a double circle doing one of those submarine radar actions around a tall slim object drawn tall/thin out of proportion. your hair is black.  you live in the city.  you/like/had/have cats.

remote viewing is for everybody. whether your Mozart like Sylvia Brown or can only ever play chop sticks.

[flash=200,200]URL[/flash]

justme, somewhere around June 20, 2004

ps. bunny is next to your internet camera. camera is on left, bunny in center. papers every where else >:( :-/ ;-)

cyberyoyo, somewhere around June 20, 2004

Long thread, I didn't read everything but I like how the original poster talks like a borg in his few posts:
"RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
WE HAVE DETERMINED THAT A FEW OF YOU ARE WORTH OF OUR ATTENTION
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED"

;-)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around June 20, 2004

Hi Cyberyoyo and welcome to TKR !

Had you read all of the postings (and be glad you didn't) you would have found yourself chasing your tail on a twisted journey to nowhere.

As it turned out, this saga that began with such bravado of certain members being assimilated ended with the one member, the original poster, being annihilated. It took us all a while to eventually expose and burst all M247's balloons, but we got the job done.

.........and just when we thought this topic was headed for the basement  ;)   it's like the Phoenix I tell you  ;-)

Stewen, somewhere around June 21, 2004

Hello,all. :)

It's funny.
A thread with 21 pages is really tempting, isn't it?
It's difficult not to touch the keyboard. ;-) ;-)


Stewen 8)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around June 21, 2004

[quote]A thread with 21 pages is really tempting, isn't it? [/quote]

Of course, you are quite right!  ;-)

...and when in time, this thread reaches 27 pages  ::) and likely it will as new members join and find it, maybe we will get smart and 'control' the situation such as:
All new members are REQUIRED to read this thread in full and MUST submitt an essay on it. Human nature being what it is, this will be a deterant.

The opposite would be to say that this thread SHOULD NOT be read and then members would be all over it like ants on cake at a picnic.  ;-)

Not that I would know, but has anyone been contacted/assimilated by M247?....or for that matter, contacted in any regards having to do with the contents of this thread? (other than T-bone)

So here it is...this thread standing out on the boards like a worm wiggling on a hook.... ;)

Cent, somewhere around June 21, 2004

I have taken the time to read most of this very Long thread.
A few things stand out in my mind. Mainly what I call Psychic Etiquette.
To receive info or pictures is one thing. This is usually due to someone “sending” this out, and me picking up on it. Even then I hesitate to follow the “thread” the info is coming from. Sometimes the individual is unaware they are sending strongly. BUT, to deliberately target an individual without permission, is another. It is an invasion of privacy. It’s like walking into my bedroom without knocking. It’s rude.  >:(

Which leads me to my next point. “To somehow avoid detection, to fade”  ???
Those that work in this field, or are naturally gifted, know that in order to keep some type of control, one learns very quickly to protect oneself from intrusive behaviour. This can happen in many forms.
When young, an automatic protective mechanism kicked in. A brick wall is thrown up.
As I grew older I realized this wall was not healthy for me. It blocked “all” from coming in.
We are social creatures, and need the company of others. To totally block, means the good, loving energies from those around you...are blocked off too. Hence why shields of many types are used to filter rather than block.  So the statements, like “somehow avoid” mystifies me, since most know what shields are and why they are used.  ;)

A little info for those starting out.  :)
If you feel someone or something is being intrusive, here’s a few ways to deal with it.
For a weak link, all that is needed is to simply cut the thread. *I use a pair of shears*
Find where it’s attached. I hold on to it just past my own energy. So when I cut it, “I” decide what’s next.
Sometimes I just toss it away and it usually just dissolves. *this tells me it either wasn’t a big threat or it was unintentional*  If the link is strong, and there was no hello first…I will pull it taunt and snap it back to where it came from, putting a sting to it just like a rubber band. How dare you probe my mind without permission.  :o
If you recognize the same energy trying to push through, then I would take more serious action.
For those that use PSI balls, fill it with intent and tie it to the thread. Shove it back at the source, causing a shock wave and a warning. I’m not one to throw curses or spells at an individual, it’s not good for ones own Karma, but I am not above holding the individual or entity up to seek justice. Use whatever deity you follow. I would use the wisdom of the Crone herself. *but, that is for my belief’s and path*

We all have in us the power to put a stop to it. I’ve had a swarm of 5 that was taken care of by ice. They are much like mosquitoes. *you can recognize them by seeing little hooks where they have attached* I’ve also dealt with low level negatives scurrying around my feet. Tripping me. Blasting them with fire worked great. Don’t do this with people thought. It’s bad for your karma to purposely hurt another.

As far as individuals only having 1 gift and being rare to have more than 1 ability is hogwash.
I am not rare. Yet I am empathic. I need shields when out in crowds to prevent being overwhelmed by all the emotional energy floating around. I am a receiver of pictures, moving pics and emotions from events about to happen, or real time and space happenings. Both of these abilities are naturally born.
I also RV and feel I’m not too bad at that either. With study and practice we all have the capabilities of growing, strengthening our skills. When we limit ourselves in our minds, we do not grow.
So…keep an open mind to possibilities. Sure we have our strong points, but those little gifts are available too. To ALL of us.

Okay, I’m done my lecture.  ;-)

Stewen, somewhere around June 21, 2004

[quote]I have looked at your results in the practice sessions I belive I may be able to use your services pay is 2000-4000 a month dependign on performance are you interested?[/quote]


PDPuh Jommies, I got this PM on Grillflame.
Maybe it's the same guy.

Stewen 8)

Stewen, somewhere around June 21, 2004

And I did some detective work on that guy and found out who he was.

[quote]So here it is...this thread standing out on the boards like a worm wiggling on a hook.... [/quote]

Your quite right,that one was fishing, too.


Stewen 8)

Cent, somewhere around June 21, 2004

*stands beside Stewen*

Now that's a little scary to be offered a job by an unknown, and not be told what position and company.
How can one say no to that type of cash?

*throws up brick wall*
*whispers* Stewen....don't drink the koolaid.

Stewen, somewhere around June 21, 2004

[quote]How can one say no to that type of cash?[/quote]

Well Cent, I did. 8)

And... I'll stick to Coke . ;)


Stewen 8)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around June 21, 2004

OMG....it will be the 3 of us who will build this thread to 26 pages  :o :o :o

Here I am, bitting on the worm   :P

Stewen - very interesting. Someone else posted on TKR that 'another' RVer with some notority found their way to grillflame.

I'm sure all of us who were involved in this thread would be interested in knowing all the details of your business proposition and other details...in particular, you say you actually found out who he was/is. I for one would like to know what you found.  Many of us tried to decode his blabber to get behind it all in hopes of pinning him down and we didn't. Is this information available to share with us?

This thread has many elements...being annoying is certainly one of them, however, for all the snickering and giggling it's offered me, I don't believe this thread is worthless...it's not here by 'accident'....we just haven't seen the bottom line yet is all. There is something 'in here' that needs to 'be seen'

Stewen, somewhere around June 21, 2004

Well, what can I say.
I threw a his mail away, but what he wanted was that I was supposed to remote view 4-5 target in 24h  three times each week.No feedback.The company had something to do with private intelligence, I can't remember the name of the company. ???His name however is Christopher Monski .
The pay was 150-200$ for each hit.
I wouldn't have had a chance to know how many hits I scored.
I would have been employed as a graphics designer!
Not as a Remote viewer,because of all the pictures I would supply them.
He said he couldn't hire me as a RV:er.
Don't know why.
He's also a fanatic player of computer games.
His E-mail is  cmonski@hotmail.com
But I don't know if he is Member#247.


Stewen 8)

Stewen, somewhere around June 21, 2004

One more thing,he also told me to keep it a secret. :P
He said that I could get hurt if the wrong people found out I was RV:ing them. :o

Stewen 8)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around June 21, 2004

Well, well....this is getting interesting ~

If you have read all the posts in this thread, there was a time and place where I mentioned the name Jeff, Arizona and New Jersey. This was not by accident.

I didn't get a bite on the name Jeff or Az and I didn't expect to. This was my way of saying to M247 that there were many likenessess to another time and that I was aware of them....that I was thinking this could be one in the same person and if so, tread carefully because I will nail you (expose) if you start with the same nonsense here.

New Jersey did get a response from him...in the form of 'what happened in New Jersey...what went on there' something to this effect.

Right from the get go with M247, I had all kinds of bells and whistles go off --- your last post furthers the alarms.
He found me to be an antagonist...he didn't like my pointed questions AT ALL. People who don't have something to hide don't react as he did throughout all the posts.

Anyway, back to Jeff. He too is involved in stocks...as a psychic/remote viewer and has branched out from child finding to the stock market predictions/club that can be joined as a money making venture. ...again, this sounds familiar. It's a long story (aren't all the good ones) and in the end, we did not part friends.  He knew I was on to him and shut down on the internet for over a year.

so..... The New Jersey was another 'feeling' I had about him.

Do I have 'anything'...nope....but I am on alert about this person.

Thanks for the info Stewen. If the person you are talking about is the same as m247, you got a lot further than any of us did.  -)id he contact you before or after you joined TKR?  I have some other questions, but we can digest what we have at hand for the moment.

Stewen, somewhere around June 21, 2004

[quote]Did he contact you before or after you joined TKR? [/quote]

After.
BTW,check your PM:s.


Stewen 8)

Stewen, somewhere around June 21, 2004

Oops,my last post came out wierd. ;-)
I hope you know what I mean.

;-)
Stewen 8)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around June 21, 2004

[quote]After.
BTW,check your PM:s. [/quote]

I know what you mean....I'll check

'the slut'    :P

OMG!!  I hope to high heavens you remember what this means  ;-)... if not, I"m soooooo  :-[       ;-)

Stewen, somewhere around June 21, 2004

Yep,I do remember. ;-)


Stewen 8)

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around June 22, 2004

AHEM.... need to cover my butt here  (pun intended  ;-) )

For those of you who haven't come across the thread where 'the slut'  thing first appeared, it means 'the end' in Swedish.

Oh....those darn Swedes  ;-)   they knew I would fall for and play with that one  LMAO   :P

T-bone, somewhere around June 24, 2004

OH MY GOD!  ::)

Here I come back after a short sabatical, and this thread is "STILL" active?  Sheeesh!  I thought that this horse was dead and burried!  

*Psst, pdPJ.  Lets dig him up, revive him, and then we can beat him again. *  ;-)

LOL, you got to be kidding me.  Well at least it's entertaining!  But then again so was that cartoon of the "dancing frog". (Hello my baby, hello my darling, hello my ragtime doll...) ROFLMAO

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around June 24, 2004

WELL, WELL, WELL......

HiDeHo T-bone !!  ;-)

[quote]*Psst, pdPJ.  Lets dig him up, revive him, and then we can beat him again. *  
[/quote]

That's what ya get for leaving us....we kept this thread up and alive just for you....for your amusement  ;)


Sure....I'll start passing out the shovels right now.....

He WAS a tasty morsal wasn't he?   LMAO   :P

T-bone, somewhere around June 24, 2004

[quote]Sure....I'll start passing out the shovels right now.....[/quote]


Sure, but while we're doing that, maybe we should have PJ just rename this thread to "Dig your own grave and save!" or "How to keep a dead horse on it's feet while laughing your ass off!"

LOL! Somebody call the Vatican quick! We need an exorcist to banish this demon!  Either that, or a small fat woman to do some chanting and then say "This house ..err.. thread is clean".  :P

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around June 24, 2004

OMG..........page 23.............sigh

Are we sick or what?  Shhhhhhhh

So, I need some discernment here....not quite clear about if I'm hearing wisdom or sarcasam.... pffft


Call the Vatican you say....in the same breath as saying you want to clean this thread......tell me, while on your sabatical, have you forgotten what goes on in/at the Vatican...hmmmmm?  Call Miss Cleo....she'll do just as well.

Anyway.... 'spray the RAID' comes to mind....watch em scatter....

See ya

T-bone, somewhere around June 25, 2004

[quote]So, I need some discernment here....not quite clear about if I'm hearing wisdom or sarcasam.... [/quote]

Ahem... "Sarcasam"... definitly.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around June 25, 2004

                    :o       Really    ;)

Wadda say you pick up one of those shovels T-bone and toss the last bit of dirt on this grave and let's put this thread to rest ;-)

I know you will have the most fitting last words appropriate for this cause ~  and they are ?

T-bone, somewhere around June 25, 2004

Well, I guess I could.  

NAAA!  ;-)

*Grabs the defibulator paddles and say's "CLEAR" *

*ZZZZZZTTT!... "Again! ... "CLEAR!" .... ZZZZTT!*

Hmmm... I smell something cooking... ehhh, probably just my brain..  ;)

Ebada-ebada That's ALL FOLKS!

(Insert "loony-toons" theme here)

;-)

Stewen, somewhere around June 25, 2004

Jabba dabba dooo,we're on our way to page 24. ;-)
Let's go for it. ;)
I'm in ,I'm in............ ;-)


Stewen 8)

admin, somewhere around June 25, 2004

Hmmmn.  There oughtta be some unofficial rule that for every pointless post made, one with substance gets put up.  It is one of the mysteries of the universe, that the threads with the least substance have the most posts!

PJ

waterway, somewhere around June 25, 2004

PJ said:

[color=Green]It is one of the mysteries of the universe, that the threads with the least substance have the most posts!
[/color]

That is so true.

I was just thinking that same thing.

... about the pointless posts.  There are a lot of them.

It could be a real problem, just posting a lot.

I couldn't agree more.

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around June 25, 2004

[quote] There oughtta be some unofficial rule that for every pointless post made, one with substance gets put up.  It is one of the mysteries of the universe, that the threads with the least substance have the most posts!
[/quote]

In an attempt to offer something with substance, I offer this:

    TKR is blessed with members with more than usual intelligence in serious minded people. Having said this, it is not surprising to me in the least that this thread has gotten the attention it has.

    Part of living a psi life is that of allowing our minds to process and observe what comes our way. Right from the get go, M247 presented an opportunity...not only to our skills of discernment, but he also allowed our creativity to flourish and fly. He was an exercise in exposure of faulty thinking and premise using intelligent problem solving facts and strategies, which we did....fairly and with patience.

    Now that all of this is over, we were content to leave it be...just settle into the archives...but then along come new members who 'find it' and bring it up to our awareness again. Along with intelligence and creativity, there are those of us who combine these qualities with a sense of having fun.  There is much humor in this thread...especially in hindsight...after the original business at hand was taken care of.

    This leaves this post to be a fertile playground for those who have a need to relieve real life stresses in a congenial manner with those who have tangled with M247 and his merry ways with minds he considered inept. Perhaps this is a funeral turned into a fun wake?

    I'm about out of creative ways of offering substance now....someone else will have to embellish this to bring it up to substance par/standards..... kind of like one of those game letters where everyone adds something and it grows and grows with substance and wisdom.

    Ok...I'm outta here on this one....but my perceptions offered where not made in jest. I belive we are being 'normal' regarding this thread.....and how about the readership???  While most have NOT contributed verbally, there sure are an astounding amount of people still interested enough to continue checking out each new posting.....still interest for whatever reason....if only to give people a laugh. Laughter is a GOOD thing....necessary even.

T-bone, somewhere around June 26, 2004

[quote]

In an attempt to offer something with substance, I offer this:

    TKR is blessed with members with more than usual intelligence in serious minded people. Having said this, it is not surprising to me in the least that this thread has gotten the attention it has.

    Part of living a psi life is that of allowing our minds to process and observe what comes our way. Right from the get go, M247 presented an opportunity...not only to our skills of discernment, but he also allowed our creativity to flourish and fly. He was an exercise in exposure of faulty thinking and premise using intelligent problem solving facts and strategies, which we did....fairly and with patience.

    Now that all of this is over, we were content to leave it be...just settle into the archives...but then along come new members who 'find it' and bring it up to our awareness again. Along with intelligence and creativity, there are those of us who combine these qualities with a sense of having fun.  There is much humor in this thread...especially in hindsight...after the original business at hand was taken care of.

    This leaves this post to be a fertile playground for those who have a need to relieve real life stresses in a congenial manner with those who have tangled with M247 and his merry ways with minds he considered inept. Perhaps this is a funeral turned into a fun wake?

    I'm about out of creative ways of offering substance now....someone else will have to embellish this to bring it up to substance par/standards..... kind of like one of those game letters where everyone adds something and it grows and grows with substance and wisdom.

    Ok...I'm outta here on this one....but my perceptions offered where not made in jest. I belive we are being 'normal' regarding this thread.....and how about the readership???  While most have NOT contributed verbally, there sure are an astounding amount of people still interested enough to continue checking out each new posting.....still interest for whatever reason....if only to give people a laugh. Laughter is a GOOD thing....necessary even.[/quote]

Dito.  ;-)

Stewen, somewhere around June 26, 2004

[quote]Laughter is a GOOD thing....necessary even. [/quote]

Laughter prolongs life!

And that my friends, is a scientific fact. 8)


Stewen 8)

harriet, somewhere around June 28, 2004

Hi there #247:

  Now that you've evaluated the viewers on this board, I'd like to propose a little "test and evaluation" of yours.

  There's an object sitting on top of my computer monitor.  Please describe the object.

  Thank you.

EricT, somewhere around June 28, 2004

Harriet, I do believe NM 247 has been berated into oblivion a long long time ago.

I guess I just fulfilled my pointless post quota for the day.  I return to my other hobby, mindless computer repair... hehe.

Eric

panamon, somewhere around January 6, 2007

Not quite just to contribute to the 24th page of this old post... and I didn't read EVERYTHING here but... I dind't get what so you guys think of the post of the user "just me" around page 21 (well hope IT'S 21)

Is it ironic, or isn't it a little to detailed to be actually RV?

Sorry if it's a stupid question but I am a newbye so I can still ask anyth... ehm... almost anything  ;-) ;-) ;-)

Panamon - Marco

tayko, somewhere around January 6, 2007

Ha ha what do i have to lose? apart from shaming mesen as a newy in front of the whole rv community :)  i purposely havent read any of the mail here apart from the first page...first pictures that instantly popped into my head was a little white plastic figure about an inch or inch and a bit tall looking to the left...cartoonish figure...or possibly a soldier...(but then i also later saw a little tree, a little glass pyramid and a little red toy truck!) and i saw a family photograph about A5 above to the left on a shelf....if it aint yours i dont know who it belongs to.......dont beat me up...

yours Tayko

tayko, somewhere around January 6, 2007

My friend just had a go and says he saw a furry velcro little animal with a beak and long fur possibly a muppet type thing biggish - one of those little rotund creatures stuck on top of the monitor....my friends pretty good at Rv-ing actually...im better at doing psi dreams and pretty rubbish at times at rv to order...he just added its either red or yellow....please put us out of our misery and let us know wont ya....

Tayko

tayko, somewhere around January 6, 2007

Also I cant get a white statue modelled on the Edward Berstin photograph of the soldiers planting the flag out of my head but this is one little white soldier with a flag....where does it all come from.....strange

Tayko

panamon, somewhere around January 6, 2007

Uh? Are you describing my house to me or the one of the famous Member#247? Because if it's mine, you have hit something  :) Congratulations! :)

If it's the one of #247... Ehm... Actually I don't know...  ::)

Still doesn't answer what do you think about such a detailed description like the one of the person who calls himself "Just me"

Byez,

Marco - Panamon

tayko, somewhere around January 6, 2007

How strange you say that...maybe my mind slipped over to your pc instead if you do have that little white soldier statue on yours...curious to see what mr 247 says..
Tayko

end of messages

[END Topic 274] Viewing test TKR Remote Viewing Forum March 2004