Topic [22] Beyond Stage VI TKR Remote Viewing Forum July 2003

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weewizard, somewhere around July 15, 2003

:) I have often wondered about the often speculated levels of RV beyond those that are taught publicly. Has anyone ever come across information related to any CRV levels that may still be "classified"? Or that they suspect are still classified?

Fire, somewhere around July 15, 2003

I don't know that CRV was ever classified, formally.  Only that the military was using it, I think.

I'd heard Swann's S7 related to sounds.  I seem to recall hearing from one of the intell guys way back that only Bill (aka "Liam" online) had done a little training with Swann in this.

Far as I know, Ingo was still developing and refining the methods at the time the contract was ended.  I don't know what he hadn't yet got to teaching or hadn't completed developing when it ended, or if he kept on after that.  Probably a good question for Paul Smith.

Of course he's one of those Secret Intelligence Men (SIMs).  A virtually real person, LOL (thinking of that SIMs video game).  But he'd likely know.

Fire

Damien, somewhere around July 15, 2003

    Ed does do S7 training.  It basically involves relaxing your mouth and vocal cords then trying to say basic syllables of the "target".  He gave showed me how they had used this to track the Chandra Levy killer to his place of work.  If its him and the place I don't know but very interesting data none the less.

                                           Peace to all,
                                                               -)amien

weewizard, somewhere around July 16, 2003

That's interesting. I don't think I'd ever considered vocalizations before as a possible continuation of another stage, but that does make sense. I've heard that bilocation can also happen to a viewer going into a target, but I'd never heard this described as a formal stage, more like something that just "happens" on occasion. It seemed as if formalizing the bilocation experience would allow for more information to be returned to the session, so I would have thought formalizing that process might be another advanced stage. For a simliar reason, I felt as though formalizing the establishment of a form of telepathy with any subjects in the target in order to "read" intentions would also have been an advanced stage. Lyn refers to such connections in his book briefly but never describes them as being formal stages of CRV. I had "heard" somewhere that there had been as many as 14 stages developed, but for the life of me I can't remember where I heard that. Anyway, I've always found it interesting to wonder along which lines the science eventually developed.   8) 8) 8)

Psispionen, somewhere around July 16, 2003

[quote] :) I have often wondered about the often speculated levels of RV beyond those that are taught publicly. Has anyone ever come across information related to any CRV levels that may still be "classified"? Or that they suspect are still classified? [/quote]

The Seventh Stage is indeed the "Vocal" stage but is not to be done as the finale Stage in CRV.

Try it after you have been disengaged in Stage 5 and connect yourself to the target in a very special way as Stage 6.

Modeling as Stage 7 gets a "complete new meaning" after a successfully performed Stage "Seven".

Excellent for RI applications.

Psispionen, somewhere around July 16, 2003

[quote]That's interesting. I don't think I'd ever considered vocalizations before as a possible continuation of another stage, but that does make sense. I've heard that bilocation can also happen to a viewer going into a target, but I'd never heard this described as a formal stage, more like something that just "happens" on occasion. It seemed as if formalizing the bilocation experience would allow for more information to be returned to the session, so I would have thought formalizing that process might be another advanced stage. For a simliar reason, I felt as though formalizing the establishment of a form of telepathy with any subjects in the target in order to "read" intentions would also have been an advanced stage. Lyn refers to such connections in his book briefly but never describes them as being formal stages of CRV. I had "heard" somewhere that there had been as many as 14 stages developed, but for the life of me I can't remember where I heard that. Anyway, I've always found it interesting to wonder along which lines the science eventually developed.   8) 8) 8)[/quote]

Formalized bilocation is termed ERV.

Ingo Swann developed another 11 non-official stages in total, including the snipped "Seventh" Stage.

cautious, somewhere around July 16, 2003

"Ingo Swann developed another 11 non-official stages in total, including the snipped "Seventh" Stage."

This is the first I have heard of this.  Perhaps you would list them, or better yet provided some serious detail on each one.  Pleasssseeeeeee?

Thank you!!

energycritter, somewhere around July 16, 2003

There you are cautious....your first posting and I was just wondering about the name...it made me cautious... ;)

BC, the EC

cautious, somewhere around July 16, 2003

Well just cause I'm Cautious doesn't mean you need to be.

Cautious

energycritter, somewhere around July 16, 2003

My cautiousness is more pretence than true caution... ;-)

I could guess that cautious is the third identity of someone that I already know two of their other identities...? Not sure, just speculating with as much effort and affectiveness as being truely cautious.

;) ;)

???

BC

Psispionen, somewhere around July 16, 2003

[quote]"Ingo Swann developed another 11 non-official stages in total, including the snipped "Seventh" Stage."

This is the first I have heard of this.  Perhaps you would list them, or better yet provided some serious detail on each one.  Pleasssseeeeeee?

Thank you!!
[/quote]

sorry bro classified info!
:'(

weewizard, somewhere around July 16, 2003

Psispionen,

Why thank you for the info; it is greatly appreciated. I will give some of these ideas a try on my next sessions and see what happens. I am always grateful to learn a bit more when it comes to developing some accuracy. It is impossible to be double blind right now when working the lost animal targets but somehow practicing the CRV protocol keeps me at a decent accuracy level and keeps the AOL to a minimum. Thanks again, I appreciate the help!  :)

Damien, somewhere around July 16, 2003

    Just RV those top secret stages LOL  ;-)

                                                     -)

weewizard, somewhere around July 16, 2003

;) ;) ;) Yes, well, that would be the obvious thing to do, wouldn't it?  8)

Psispionen, somewhere around July 17, 2003

Obvious perhaps but still a dead-end street. You want to realize higher Stages before completing with the "seventh" Stage?

This approach is not workable as no significant morphic resonance is in effect here yet.

Also, these Higher Stages are protected in a special way.

Why not try to realize the "Seventh" Stage first to complete the series and then when you mastered it, perhaps set out for the next "obvious" stage?

BTW--And how can you "RV" something that goes beyond "RV"?

>:( :-* ???

energycritter, somewhere around July 17, 2003

Beyond RV....

:)

BC

weewizard, somewhere around July 17, 2003

Psispionen,

Yeah, I kind of figured if they were classified they would also be protected; it's not like we were the first ones with this idea, and I'm sure others with much more talent and many more resources would have tried such a thing long before now. That's one of the reasons I never bothered with RVing things like this.  :) Not only would it be difficult for basic types of viewers to task, analyze and decipher the analysis, it would be difficult if not impossible to get around the psychic blocks, not to mention possibly inviting harm upon one's own psyche for doing such a thing. I remember Lyn mentioning in one of his lectures (or maybe his book) about protection methods and ways to block information psychically from different types of searches, and I realized then that there were lots of amazing things going on that I couldn't even begin to GUESS about much less figure out! It's a bit like the cave man seeing the airplane scenario. It's always good to know when you are outclassed and to leave the big plays to the major league folks.  :)

weewizard, somewhere around July 17, 2003

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I will be working on that Seventh stage idea!

Damien, somewhere around July 17, 2003

    Very interesting points Herr Spionen.  Your reference to morphic resonance is very Sheldrakesque.  Since I'm guessing you have read that book, what do you think of the ideas promulgated by Pru just before her site closed shop?  I think it was something to the effect of: the more people that RV the easier it will become to learn and eventually it will hit critical mass in the sense of a mutation or evolution of method will occur spontaneously.  Of course this would theoretically start very small and the whole process repeats itself.
   
>PP:"BTW--And how can you 'RV' something that goes beyond 'RV'?"

    This seems to have been made in jest, but is an excellent point.  What is beyond RV?  I personally don't think anything is beyond RV per se, or rather, Remote Perception.  Of course when you hit the esoteric or things of a higher nature,- there may be a point when words become useless, however one can still percieve these experiences.  I'm not sure if any data can be garnered from these type of sessions useful in the scientificly contolled setting.  What is this worth to the individual subjectively though?  RVing the higher stages may be possible, whether or not the data can be retrieved accurately and put into words so as to make a working model is probably not prabable   :P
    Would you be able to elaborate on the way in which they are protected?
    You seem to know an awful lot about these top secret things hmmmm.  PsiSpy=Paul  ???  

                                                        Good Day,  ::)
                                                                         -)amien

wizopeva, somewhere around July 17, 2003

"Also, these Higher Stages are protected in a special way."

I often wonder if one of the big methods of 'protection' is merely to convince viewers that they can't do something.  If they believe that, then I suspect the belief alone would be enough to block access.  Beliefs are very powerful tools, to be sure.  

As far as additional techniques and methods I personally have my doubts that one couldn't task and garner info on something like 'what rv method would be most helpful for me to start doing next.'   Heck, I don't even personally care what 'they' did when maybe what I should do for my own personal progress may not even be the same.  

But I do agree with Weewizard that the difficult part may well be getting enough detail and accuracy out of a session to effectively implement any precise methods.  Although at minimum, I would expect you could at least get the general gist of it, like say if it has to do with sounds and spelling and letters or what.
-E

Psispionen, somewhere around July 17, 2003

[quote]
    >Very interesting points Herr Spionen.  Your reference to >morphic resonance is very Sheldrakesque.  Since I'm guessing >you have read that book, what do you think of the ideas >promulgated by Pru just before her site closed shop?  

Dank U well Mijnherr!
Maybe "I" was the one who convinced her to close her shop, who knows? Gave her an offer she couldn't refuse. Remember this is a Martial Art and will remain so...
"I" have not only read the book "I" but have experienced the River.

>I think it was something to the effect of: the more people that RV >the easier it will become to learn and eventually it will hit critical >mass in the sense of a mutation or evolution of method will occur >spontaneously.  Of course this would theoretically start very >small and the whole process repeats itself.

Correct, but only a handful of monkeys (with clearance) has been introduced and has access to these higher stages and they are not likely to let anyone in that easy. And why should they? "They" have a responsibility that comes with it. What would happen if this type of technology ended up into the hands of ordinary people? They would start to use it and create chaos and havoc. So there is no general morphic resonance at play here.

So be able to detect and work on a higher level you need to develop a higher consciousness and a fully developed sixth sense and an "seventh" sense present and developed in the system to an anatomically present organ. The "All-Seeing Eye".
   
>PP:"BTW--And how can you 'RV' something that goes beyond 'RV'?"

    This seems to have been made in jest, but is an excellent point.  >What is beyond RV?  I personally don't think anything is beyond >RV per se, or rather, Remote Perception.  

RV is quite a limit thing. With it you can perceive in the Ether of this Planet and Planet of similar constitution. The Spiders do it all the time. There is countless of levels and dimensions and worlds above this particular one. This first book is called The Book of Nature or the Book M. It's an excellent book that can keep you busy and engaged for incarnations. When you are "RV"-ing you are starting to read in this book. In the process you will discover yet another Book and that Book is more appropriate to name "Akashic Chronicles" and it is in itself the entrance to the Sun Macrocosmos. Above that one is yet another one, let us refer to it as the "Fathers" timeline. The original one and no one get access to that book without coming thorough the "Sun."

>Of course when you hit the esoteric or things of a higher nature,- >there may be a point when words become useless, however one >can still percieve these experiences.  I'm not sure if any data can >be garnered from these type of sessions useful in the scientificly >contolled setting.  What is this worth to the individual >subjectively though?  RVing the higher stages may be possible, >whether or not the data can be retrieved accurately and put into >words so as to make a working model is probably not prabable   :P

What do you mean by "esoteric" personally I am happy to be counted as an "Exoteric" to begin with, if you "understand" what I mean?

>Words are abstract things that have a limited use and a meaning >only for humans. When you have developed your "Vocal" chords >in the right way you will need only one Word and it will be >sufficient. That's the true Fiat say it and it will be.

So you are of the opinion that science still have precedence before "Art". Maybe you are living on a sunken continent and you just don't know it?

RV is an Art and a Science. The Art part is themore important one IMO especially if you consider yourself to become a candidate for the "Seventh" Stage. One has to become a Magus in the right sense of the Word by ones own efforts. Or one can behind remain with the Sorcerers with there pathetic Crystals and practices and there ridiculous and useless "protective envelops of light".
 
 >Would you be able to elaborate on the way in which they are >protected?

Personally I would model something with water and clay and in the process inscribe on it, this little statue of mine i, Babylonian characters and then place it as the centerpiece on my fireplace.
And keep my Battleax handy if ever needed...

    You seem to know an awful lot about these top secret things hmmmm.  PsiSpy=Paul  ???

Ask him.  

                                                        Good Day,  ::)
                                                                         Damien

[/quote]

Fire, somewhere around July 17, 2003

[quote]Also, these Higher Stages are protected in a special way.[/quote]

Ooooooh.    Aaaaaaaaah.   ;-)

Fire

Damien, somewhere around July 17, 2003

[quote] Remember this is a Martial Art and will remain so... [/quote]

    What makes you say such things?

       [quote] RV is quite a limit thing. With it you can perceive in the Ether of this Planet and Planet of similar constitution. The Spiders do it all the time.  [/quote]

    As in Charlotte?

       [quote] What do you mean by "esoteric" personally I am happy to be counted as an "Exoteric" to begin with, if you "understand" what I mean?  So you are of the opinion that science still have precedence before "Art".[/quote]


    Esoteric as in , cue "First Word of Creation."  I think I "understand  what you mean  about "Exoteric".  That is if you mean what you say then the meaning is grasped by me.  However, maybe what you mean is different then what I mean when I say the same thing.  Which would mean that the mean of the two is not meaningful.  -)o you get what I mean or am I just being mean? ;-)

     [quote]So you are of the opinion that science still have precedence before "Art". Maybe you are living on a sunken continent and you just don't know it?[/quote]

    Well, America is sunken in many ways, although I am still able to breathe air which is good as I do not have gills. What makes you state the former?

   
     [quote]One has to become a Magus in the right sense of the Word by ones own efforts. Or one can behind remain with the Sorcerers with there pathetic Crystals and practices and there ridiculous and useless "protective envelops of light".[/quote]

    Why such disdain for those you feel are below you?

   [quote]Personally I would model something with water and clay and in the process inscribe on it, this little statue of mine i, Babylonian characters and then place it as the centerpiece on my fireplace.
And keep my Battleax handy if ever needed... [/quote]

    A golem, well I surely don't see the Army interested in such Kabbalistic practices.  However, maybe such would be effective.  

                                                     Good day,
                                                                      Damien

intuitwolf, somewhere around July 18, 2003

Eva said:
[quote]As far as additional techniques and methods I personally have my doubts that one couldn't task and garner info on something like 'what rv method would be most helpful for me to start doing next.'   Heck, I don't even personally care what 'they' did when maybe what I should do for my own personal progress may not even be the same. [/quote]

The only technique or method anyone will ever be able to [u]utilize[/u] is that which one's own self has access to. I agree with you that it's not necessary to position yourself as if you were an interloper on someone else's ideas.  Sometimes it is helpful to have a teacher; but the most important relationship is with your own self and the balancing of conscious, subconscious, and supraconscious  perspectives of mind.  If the balance is lacking it doesn't matter how many techniques are spoon-fed to a person -- they won't be able to effectively utilize the technique.

Shelia  

LianS, somewhere around July 19, 2003

"Also, these Higher Stages are protected in a special way. "


I wonder what else is being protected here by all this cabalistic mumbo-jumbo. I find that in RV, as in science, the people who have gone out and discovered  truly remarkable things have been humble, playful, open spirits. The dark high priests creating their own mythology, advertising the secretness of "higher knowledge" - almost invariably they are busy sheltering an ego busting at the seams, which leaves no room for the wonders of the universe. They don't explore - they project.   :-/


Lian S.

jdawg572002, somewhere around July 20, 2003

crv stage 8 is 'Analytics' --RVing #'s, symbols, letters and a few other things- j057

Psispionen, somewhere around July 20, 2003

[quote]crv stage 8 is 'Analytics' --RVing #'s, symbols, letters and a few other things- j057 [/quote]

Sounds like we are performing some "cabalistic mumbo-jumbo" here at this juncture. ;)  Correct. :-*

jdawg572002, somewhere around July 20, 2003

psi-
your denying that stage 8 is 'analytics'??-- this info. about stage 8 i didn't make up, it came from a very respected source, someone who worked with ingo back in the day and i'm not talking about Ed Dames, srv, trv, guys- j057

Fire, somewhere around July 20, 2003

Now something of value on this thread would be discussion about an approach to these types of data.  Whether they exist (or are hidden by secret cosmic powers), well, so.

I rarely get such data in session, but when I do, it usually hits me in the middle of stage4.  I often 'hear' it when it's a sound, or 'see' it when it's something unusual, spelled out for me.

Fire

Psispionen, somewhere around July 21, 2003

[quote]psi-
your denying that stage 8 is 'analytics'??-- this info. about stage 8 i didn't make up, it came from a very respected source, someone who worked with ingo back in the day and i'm not talking about Ed Dames, srv, trv, guys- j057[/quote]

On the contrary I confirmed it.... My remark, perhaps somewhat gleeful sneering was directed to the posting preceeding yours the one made by Liam.

It was indeed the "Eight" Stage you described there.  :-*

weewizard, somewhere around July 21, 2003

:o Well, now maybe I can put some of the interesting info that I've been getting in sessions into a better context. Thank you folks for the insights.

I think maybe we get less of this type of data because we don't know what we're looking for? In the same way that an experienced tracker can find the tiniest jaguar hairs on a bush in the deepest Amazon if he is "focused" only on the Jaguar's presence and lets other information flow past, it feels as if some of this is necessary to have an exceptionally powerful and accurate RV session.

Information that flows out of an 'expected' target data stream (not necessarily frontloaded) context is often difficult for me to classify or have any idea what to do with (whether to record or not, or is it the silly spinning of my mind's eye) and so possibly much good information is missed altogether. To know to look for the jaguar in this way is very important, I feel. Thanks, this helps a bit to understand some of the ways in which the information will flow. I too have often seen symbols in stage 4, and that is the only place I originally recorded them. There are also times when I 'get' conceptualized, telepathic type 'messages' that come often in short sentences, or concepts of knowings, that I don't understand. I usually classify them as gestalts and record them as such. Some can be rather specific and feel like random thoughts, but if they are "unexpected" I record them as part of the session.

One of the other difficulties is learning how to slow the information down enough to grasp it for recording purposes. I always feel like I'm missing the lion's share of the information. (I must be in a big cat mood this morning   ;) )

Deb

jdawg572002, somewhere around July 21, 2003

psi-
lian S -- is Liam?--actually i heard that ingo has made so many more stages(more then 11) that my teacher was jokeing about- not in a rude way cause i know he's friends with ingo but after i learned about stage 8 crv(never went that far) i switched mainly to ARV where i have no problem RVing letters, symbol, #'s-- they all are really just symbols with meaning- stay up- J

weewizard, somewhere around July 21, 2003

??? ??? Sorry everyone, I'm going a BIT off topic here...warning....

jdawg - when you ARV do you consistently use the same symbols for your numbers, symbols and letters or do you mainly use completely different associative information each time? Would there be any advantage/disadvantage to keeping the symbology the same? 9 always equals an apple, or something. I'm thinking out loud a bit here about the use/understanding of symbology in later stages vs. how it is utilized in ARV.


--oh, and I'm personally  :-[ crushed  :'( that you think the wizard thing is so lame. (Reference the other posting on another thread) :'(  I just earned my little pointy hat and wand-let, and here I find out it's not even cool anymore. Sigh. and I worked so hard to find that teeny picture.  ;)

jdawg572002, somewhere around July 22, 2003

sorry weewizard didn't mean to knock your method u learned, just your teacher-- anyway ARVing #'s, ya u can associate an apple with a number or a picture, etc.-- a sheet of symbols= #'s is good to make but then again numbers themselves are symbols so why not practice viewing #'s-- if u make symbols=#'s or pics= #'s then your already frontloading so might as well ARV future #'s then draw em out of a hat-- i wont get into exactly how i do it cause i don't have the time right now but if you think hard you can figure out probably half a dozen wayz- J ;)

Tunde, somewhere around July 27, 2003

Hi

Just had a great day out with a CRV student
and we exchanged ideas and methods on RV
she mentioned something about making a model which
i didnt follow up on unfortunately
I dont do CRV only TDS but what is this "modelling "
stage i keep hearing about where you use vocals
and also try and make a 3-D model of the target
is this stage 6 or beyond?

Peace,
Tunde

Tunde, somewhere around July 29, 2003

Lets try again...
Ok heres what iam talking about   ::)
check out the modelling photos

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/catalyst/catalyst/id31.html

Reminds me of the devils tower scene from CE of the
3rd kind movie where richard dreyfuss models the image
he keeps getting of the mountain.

cool stuff  8)

Peace,
Tunde

weewizard, somewhere around July 31, 2003

;) No sweat, jdawg, I was just joshin'. I have thicker skin that that, anyway.

weewizard, somewhere around July 31, 2003

Oops. Hit my post button too fast.

Tunde, I like the modeling idea, and it makes good sense that this is a great way to connect with the ideomotor response system for more information while 'disconnecting' from the conscious mind. I have always been able to trance out a bit when working on my artwork, so I suspect that modelling would be a remarkable connection to the target if you could 'let go' of worrying about getting everything exactly correct and let your 'body' do the talking, so to speak. Or your right brain, or whatever.

Deb

Fire, somewhere around September 19, 2003

You known, on the 'beyond stage 6' concept...

I think it's important to consider that RV is still pretty young.  There is some really important stuff that has been learned so far.  But I am sure that in 100 years we will look back at our current state of the art in RV and consider it akin to the Eye Of Newt level of development. ;-)  

It has been my experience in hypnosis that the mind is a pretty amazing thing.  Generally anything you ask for from it, and don't hinder in other other ways, it will provide.  

I think a lot of what we're dealing with in RV is getting over the UNbeliefs.  I suspect that if we really want to get XYZ type of data, or level of data, we pretty much need to decide so, set up a structure for reminding ourselves or asking for it, and practice it regularly.  It'll happen.  I don't think there are any limits.

When it comes to things like words and numbers and so forth, I think the mind is perfectly capable of getting this info.

I think the major problem in RV is that we have a rather limited concept of how reality works.  We are still for the most part in the linear, objective reality framework.  If reality isn't like that, then our assumptions get seriously in the way of what we're doing.

I think as viewers--and our population in general--"free their mind" from current limiting paradigms, the ability to RV well will become more common and the ability to get specific data, that considered somewhat 'beyond' what some methods make a real effort for now, is going to expand.

So, I don't just think it's beyond Stage VI we need to consider.  I think it's beyond the idea of 'stages', of spelled-out limits, altogether.  

Does RV eventually someday come to the point of 'direct knowing?'  I had that for about 6 months.  I think it was a side effect of sudden major expansion of heart and crown chakras.  Absolutely amazing.  All the information in the universe is just... there.  It's everywhere, it flows through us, it's buried in it.  We only have to pay attention to it.  Alas that was before I'd heard of RV, so it was mostly just a really novel experience at the time. ;-)  

But part of me thinks that RV is so niche, and such a limited view; I like it, but that's not the point. Is not evolution of our selves and our species the REAL point; not just development of a skill?

Just my thoughts for the day.

PJ

end of messages

[END Topic 22] Beyond Stage VI TKR Remote Viewing Forum July 2003