Topic [100] Rewarding the sub TKR Remote Viewing Forum August 2003

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Mystic_Rhythms, somewhere around August 6, 2003

Hi all-

I had a very interesting conversation with my RV instructor whilest driving home in the gridlock...  We were talking about immediatly rewarding the sub once feedback is given for a target well done, in order to "train" the sub a la pavlovs doggie to give you good data.

#1 question- what do you think about that?  Sounds like a brilliant idea to me, I never thought of it before and am kicking myself now for not...

#2 question- What positive ways can you think of for rewarding your sub like that?  Please keep the sex/drugs/rock and roll to a minimum... All joking aside I am very genuinly interested in ideas here.  

That whole concept was my mind blowing obvious concept (at least to me) for the day. Any takers to crush it?  ;)

MR

waterway, somewhere around August 7, 2003

...all joking aside... I have heard of little bits of candy being used as a reward by serious RVers.

But what about sweets rewards the subconscious?  -)oes the brain like the sugar?  Is it related to primary and secondary re-inforcers a la behaviorism?  If the subconscious merely likes sensory pleasure, or it desires something to increase its genetic potential, why wouldn't sex be more effective as a reward?  

Help me understand this.  Its a good question MR has asked.

energycritter, somewhere around August 7, 2003

Can you intend thoughts of good esteem to the SC. I guess I am just figuring that the SC would be happy to see you think towards it with thoughs and feelings of reward by taking on a type of intent that gives the SC credit and appreciation internally. Kind of an afirmation thing, done using internal dialog and talking to your SC inside.

As far as the sex, that would seem to need to be very romantic foreplay that gave a deep internal, even SC reward and not a body experience exclusivly.   ::) :o

good question..... ???

BC the EC

waterway, somewhere around August 7, 2003

EC,

I use affirmations a lot... I mean a few times during the day with our without RV involved, in an effort to.... well, to be nice to my subconscious and to feel better over-all.  So I believe the subconscious does get "rewards" from affirmation, security and competent conscious cognition... hey, say that three times fast....

......as for sex.... I get the feeling that many people see the subconscious as synonymous with "soul" or some higher being.... or as being associated primarily with self-concept or emotions.  In that case, I would see how sexual interaction would reward the subconscious if it contained "meaning", love, caring, and some spiritual sharing.  All those things are wonderful, sure.

But others believe the subconscious is more like Freuds idea of the "Id", a childlike primitive glob of urges that really is primarily interested in pleasure.  

Since we are talking about rewards, we kinda should address this difference... ::)

So what do you all think?  If you agree more with one than the other, how do you explain the evidence for the one you don't subscribe to?  Can they be mixed?  

So, what makes something a reward to the subconscious?

mindchild, somewhere around August 7, 2003

Boy, here is another wonderful, thought provoking thread  ;-).  I love this!

Maybe we can't understand entirely what motivates the subconscious, maybe each of us will have to try rewarding ours and find out what works (and report back to the group, of course  ;-) )

Love is a powerful motivator anyway.  Sex can certainly be interpreted as love in the subconscious, depending on the person and the partner of course.  I think perhaps embracing the subconscious with gratitude can feel pretty good, maybe that's a good reward.   The subconscious is us anyway, so if it feels deeply wonderful to the conscious thought, perhaps it is also the case subconsciously.

Laurie

Mystic_Rhythms, somewhere around August 7, 2003

Yeah, sure, sex is certainly a good reward.  But that in itself is a bad conditioning habit.

For instance... you would be reverse conditioning yourself to expect sex after RV.  Uhh... yeah.  Not good, IMO.  I would want to keep them more sperate.

Focusing intent on being grateful though, that is a good idea.  I wonder if thats all it takes...

Does anyone out there do this?  The idea sprung from the "martini feedback" idea in Joe Ms stargate chronicles.

MR

energycritter, somewhere around August 7, 2003

Similar to horse whispering, I would agree that the best way would be in the intent and thereby a type of SC whispering. Simple internal dialog that ministers affirmation and acceptence to the SC could help the SC join up (HW term) with the C.

Do those that have strong and magnificent image streaming experiences ever realize an internal dialog that draws on the SC to render images and whatnot? I have not played with it enough to know for myself.

I do know that my wife can image stream while having a conversation with me. She had health issues as a child and most of her life. The health issues caused her to extremely limit her physical activity. Maybe, over time, she intended affirmations to her SC while she sat alone and other kids ran around in the noise of their normal life. Maybe, these times alone and quit lended themselves to her creating a dialog that her C mind whispered to her SC mind in someway. BY whisper, I do not mean the soft voice, I mean a silent posture, that contains a silent dialog of draw unto self, so to speak.

I will ask her to see if she can recognize such a dialog or any type of intent that facilitates her SC and C joining.

BC the EC

energycritter, somewhere around August 7, 2003

Possibly, just maybe....the intent to provide more time for the SC to play is reward enough for the SC.

This could be done by deliberately meditating more, image streaming more, RV practice more....ans so on...

Giving of time could be a reward to the SC.

BC the EC

waterway, somewhere around August 7, 2003

Yes, time and attention would be a reward... but does it behaviorly modify the subconscious into being more productive in the RV session?  Its like rewarding your muscles with more exercise.  Of course that is gonna increase productivity.

Folks suggest that giving themselves candy immediately after RV increases the hit rate.  This is above and beyond the normal reward that occurs from practice, which is gonna occur if you practice.... see the difference?

And yes, we don't want sex or any other reward to be a crutch.  Maybe the issue isn't "Should we reward our subconscious if it can be rewarded?" but instead we should wonder about "What and  how is the subconscious rewarded?" since this will shed some light on the dynamics of the whole process.

What do you think?

-ww

energycritter, somewhere around August 7, 2003

My wife just mentioned that she feels like she actually gives the SC mind the time to be silent or speak....being conscious of its need for time and place in thought seems to be what she has done as a deliberate embrace of the SC. Now, does that reward it...?

She did want me to mention that chocolate helps everything, the beter the chocolate, the more psi she becomes... ;-)

Is reward or affirmation needed to motivate the SC to perform better, maybe the results of any reward system is nothing more than the motivation of the C mind to shut up and stop making so much noise that interfers with the SC mind. Maybe the SC mind desires nothing from us as a reward other than time to exist and be recognized by the conscious mind as being the one that knows it all.

So, maybe, the reward is for the C mind to motivate it to play nice and stop hogging the surface of thought, and then the SC can just be, without any pretence of pleasure or contentment.

BC the EC

waterway, somewhere around August 7, 2003

[color=Blue]well that sounds logical... I like it.  More thinking outside the box.  It will make life a bit easier.

I was worried there for a bit that we were going to conclude that since the subconscious is open to rewards of pleasure, I was going to have to drive over the to the drug store for some vitamin E or some chocolate or something.  [/color]  ;)

Years ago, in my college days, a research report was published that noted a correlation between test scores and eating immeditately after study.  What they observed was that if you ate something good right after studying for a test, you did better on the test.  The question was, why?  -)id the nutrients in the food cause your memory to improve, or was is simply conditioning?  Or was it evolutionary forces, in that .... in ancient hunter-gather times while we humans were evolving, those who were able to remember what they were doing, what they experienced, right before finding food and eating, had better reproductive success and passed that trait on.    

So I hypothesized that if increased reproductive potential was the factor here, then what increases reproductive potential more than sex, right?  (Research confirms that people who participate in sex reproduce more than people who do not....)  So my logic was that if I studied, then participated in sex, my scores (excuse the pun) in class would improve.  I had a big psychology test on the horizon, so I explained my theory to my wife.  I told her that we needed to make love after I studied every day until the test, and I asked her what she thought of my plan.  She said "I think you are gonna fail that test".  Ugh.... science isn't always nice!

energycritter, somewhere around August 7, 2003

Chances are, the SC mind does not relate to rewards.

The C mind does though and we most likely are just giving it a reward and that does something for those that it works for......hhhhhmmmmmmm

Reward is an ego thing...I think, maybe not exclusively though?....so, does the ego have SC tendency for affirmation....or....does the SC mind have an ego that needs to be recognized, I know my C ego does, but, does the SC feel or relate to rewards at all. It could be considered that it does not, by definition of its location and existance and whatnot.

of course, who really know, well, the SC probably does...hehe.... ::)

BC the EC

energycritter, somewhere around August 7, 2003

I am going to try and reward my SC by attempting to reduce my daily effort to control my C life. I tend to give my C life too much re-cog-nition.

Maybe, if I reduce C control, then the SC can come forward and lead and direct as well as influence the latent causes, as well as the ineffable existences, to be in my favor more successfully than my C effort could ever dream of accomplishing.

That may not reward my SC, but, it should give it re-cog-nition. In addition, this could lead to pre-cog-nition and other forms of knowingness that should be available to all humans that intend towards such achievements while awake.

Do the good RVers, that seem to have successful SC activity, live their daily lives as control freaks……or…..do they go with the flow and thereby facilitate SC and RV actions or manifestations?

This is also a passion of mine….I want to be lead by that which resides in the spirit or unseen realms of existence, the SC….or whatever you want to call the critter that lives inside, presently referred to as SC.

BC the EC with awake SC from the slumber forced by C, do you see….he he ;-)

Waxing poetic…..wax on, wax off… ::)

mindchild, somewhere around August 7, 2003

mmm....chocolate IS good for just about everything  ;-)

From reading the posts here, I'm now wondering if the subconscious is always putting out 100%, and maybe candy is more rewarding the conscious mind for letting the subconscious have a chance.    

I'm thinking about how active the sc is at night when we're dreaming, how creative it is and how much energy it puts into problem solving, etc., and we are not able to consciously reward it, yet it does that.  

Laurie

energycritter, somewhere around August 7, 2003

Mindchild....Maybe intending to know our dreams is a type of reward for the SC?

The SC is so active, as you mentioned, and, most likely, 100% of the time...we just need to wake up while we are what we refer to as awake....or....wake up while sleeping.....

BC the EC

mindchild, somewhere around August 7, 2003

BC,
Maybe so.  Perhaps when a dream is remembered and understood/acknowledged, the sc can relax on that particular issue and move on to solving something else.  That's been my experience with dreams.

Sometimes when I haven't been able to resolve a dilemma consciously, I've asked my subconscious to resolve it while I'm sleeping, and in most cases it has come up with something, either in a dream or with a thought that occurs to me upon waking.  

Anyway, then it may come back to simply paying attention to what the sc is talking about.

Laurie

energycritter, somewhere around August 7, 2003

Laurie/MC, it seems to be that way...pay attention to it and it can do its thing.

The "pay" part of pay attention is the reward, sort of.

Intuitwolf and others had a good conversation on the intent topic/thread. They mentioned the intent and concentration on it to be the first link to the SC. So, if we intend on the SC playing a key role (like you asking it to answer questions during the dream state) in stuff we just can not solve, that must be, so called, "rewarding" for the SC mind.

BC the EC

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around August 8, 2003

[quote]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, time and attention would be a reward... but does it behaviorly modify the subconscious into being more productive in the RV session?  Its like rewarding your muscles with more exercise.  Of course that is gonna increase productivity.[/quote]

    This is an interesting topic!  Thanks for introducing it.

Points to consider:
1. when is our SC the most obvious to us?
          A- when dreaming

2. why when dreaming?
          A-  WE don't interfer. All our barriers are down and there is no resistance or power struggles.

3. Why do some remember dreams & others don't?

        A- I think it depends on the beliefs of the dreamer. For those who believe in the importance of dreams, they are more apt recall them. For those who don't, they still dream, but the mind hasn't been trained to recognize them as being of value.

4. What rewards the SC?
      A- knowing that it provides a service that is valued and appreciated.
      A- we don't know what goes on 'in there' but the SC knows what goes on within us. Therefore, if the SC knows us. On the outside, we may say, 'yup, I believe in that (whatever)' but the SC may also know that while you believe it, you also have 4-5 reservations about it - so it's not a TOTAL belief.  
      A- allowing the SC to do it's job - to do what it does and to assume that it knows it's job. We are not to critisize it, demand from it, abuse it with negativity/doubts. When given info that is not understood by us, we aren't to infer...sheesh...what a jerk lol...what a dummy  what a bunch of hooey etc.
     A- we are to respect all that comes from the SC. We are to assume that is giving us what it does based on truth as the SC sees it but dependant upon our belief system.  
     A- the SC aims to please. It wants to perform. Like anyone having a job to do, to do the job well, it needs affirmations of thanks, respect, atta boys, keep the flow coming,.  It is our job to be clear in our intentions of what it is we want to know. Be specific.  Garbage in/garbage out.

5.  Why is TOTAL belief important to the SC?
    A-  the SC is impartial. It will give you what you want based on 'truth as is understood by the SC"
    A-  you have a belief that is 50/50 - pretty sure you belive in it but still needs some work...the SC isn't going to knock it selfout out in providing top notch info on this topic for you.  You get out of the SC what you put into it kind of thing.
    A-  again INTENT, INTENT, INTENT  ;-)  If the SC understands that you TRULY have a need/want, I believe it will go into over drive to provide it. Our part is to recognize the vocabulary.

Just a few thoughts that hit me right off.  I can tell today is going to be one of 'those introspective days' that wear me out  :P

  modified to add this:
I forgot to mention about using a pendulam -
A pendulam will respond based on 2 reasons why
1. a natural repsonse vs
2. a forced/manipulated response by you.

The natural response stems directly from the SC using the ideomatic nervous system ( I may have slaughterd that, but I think it's close enough).

The pendulam works best using questions that can be answered by yes or no. PC posted an excellent article on forming questions.  It is imperative when using a pendulam to have your questions presented as specifically as possible while keeping them simple...(not a question within a question within a question type of thing)

Working with a pendulam on a daily basis keeps you in touch with you SC...keeps the dialog open and flowing. You can 'play' with the SC using this method....taking a deck of playing cards, spread a few out face down and ask (with pendulam overtop each card, one at a time) is this card red?  or...is this a face card etc.

I use the term 'play', but with definition. Play in this case is based on INTENT as well respect. You don't want to try to trick the SC. You don't want to make fun of the SC.  But all work with the SC needn't be drop dead serious or life/death important.  The idea is to make and keep friends with the SC on a daily basis.

Anyone can learn to use a pendulam. Like anything else, there will be some who take to it right away and will learn and progress quickly.

energycritter, somewhere around August 8, 2003

So, if we mix faith with intent and use that to SC whisper, we can draw out the SC to join up with the C and share a wealth of truth that resides within the SC play land.

The faith to believe in the SC treasures can then act as a reward and the truth of believing in the SC value as in dreams, etc. can facilitate remembrence of the pot of gold found in the SC.

BC the EC

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around August 8, 2003

[quote]So, if we mix faith with intent and use that to SC whisper, we can draw out the SC to join up with the C and share a wealth of truth that resides within the SC play land[/quote]

The above is how it seems to work for me  ;-)


Here is another aspect I've learned. I tried to get the idea across in my other posting, but don't think I did a good job of it.... so I will try again.

For instance: Let's use mediation as the method.

You claim to be a truthful person. You tell everyone that truth/trust matters as one of the most important qualities a person can have etc. You tell your kids this and raise them with this concept. Anyone tells you an untruth and you take great offense of them. You show the world that you are an upright good person......and so forth.

The other side of the coin shows that perhaps you fudge on your income taxes, that you help yourself to a little extra from the cash drawer at the work place, when asked where did the Christmas money gifts go and instead of fessing up that you lost it at the slots you say you lost it....must have a hole in the pocket...

What is going on here is that you are NOT faking out the SC.  IT KNOWS!  It doesn't judge, it simply knows from it's training....trained by YOU.  The SC has been trained to recognize truth as a wishy-washy concept~~ always tell the truth under XYZ circumstances, but don't have to tell the truth for ABC.
The SC can know what real truth is but becomes tainted with what you have taught it.  Garbage in/garbage out.

Have you noticed that almost everyone giving good psi instructions will always tell you - 'know yourself' ?? If you  function under a cloud of delusion, then more delusion is what you will get....like attracts like.

Don't know if I made this better or worse  lol   :-/


Guess the bottom line here is that the best reward for the SC is to be honest with it. Call a spade a spade. If you tend to be dishonest then don't try and fake out the SC...if with no one else, be honest with your SC.
Know your self and admit you are who/what you are.

:-/


modified.....for petes sake !!  and I never got back to the meditation thingy.  After I finish this, I'm taking my toys and going home for the day  :P

Soooo.....when in meditation under the circumstances described, your SC is apt to give you all kinds of conflicting info when trying to meditate on truth.  See?  


....as she walks stage left dragging her toys behind her......looking forward to spending the rest of her day out of her head....lol

By the way, I feel kind of out of sorts today. I mentioned to some that I feel a sense of gloom & doom in the air.  Anyone else feeling it??

I'm expecting something to be on the news having to do with this an the next few days....just seems like something is building...a preminition I guess.  How about you?

energycritter, somewhere around August 8, 2003

So, honesty with the SC, no matter what the truth is, good, bad or indifferent, the SC wants truth to work with, it has no choice but to give back truth. So, lies in, and the SC puts lies back out, or, it is truthful about the lie being a lie.

BC the EC

Fire, somewhere around August 8, 2003

Waterway's post cracked me up!!  That was hilarious.

Maybe DAT explains those research results.  Maybe the people who psychically knew they were going to get a yummy treat in the very near future were slightly more positive/excited during the testing so they made better decisions.  

I think the theory that sex is a psi reward is a good one.  I'm all for it.

Now, Courtney Brown incorporated massage into his derivative of RV methods, though that was before the session.  Then again, what gets people in the mood better than a massage. ;-)

So what we really need is an RV method that incorporates both sex and chocolate.  

This is definitely what I'd call my kind of PJRV. ;-)

What if we promise someone sex IF they succeed well in the viewing.  In my experience, most men in particular are just short of willing to move mountains if they think getting laid is going to result from it.  ;-)

By this theory, young soldiers just out of boot camp would be the most psychic people alive.  (Finally, a good reason to put RV back in the military! ;))

PJ

polkadotpuhjommies, somewhere around August 8, 2003

[quote]So what we really need is an RV method that incorporates both sex and chocolate[/quote]

snicker, snicker (no pun intended)...well, maybe a little bit I meant it  ;-)

    wanna know just how lucky I am??  I live not more than 45 mins from Hershey Pa....CHOCOLATE TOWN USA!

The street lights are Hershey kisses -- a good cue for doing the deed.

    I say this town should be the Remote Capital of the World if all you say is true ::)

waterway, somewhere around October 30, 2003

.... and speaking of sex.... ::)

I don't think RV is biologically related then, and that kind of reflects on the origins of the Subconscious.  I mean, if PSI was genetical/bilogical in origin, then it would really be more present in the population cuz psychic people would be at a huge advantage.  

So if PSI is coming from the SC, then the SC isn't interested in reproductive potential.  Giving it chocolate will NOT reward it... directly....  

What do you think folks?

wax, somewhere around October 31, 2003

what a great thread, cracked me up  :)

I don't know about this reward thing, it made me think of trying to bribe a two year old with chocolate to pick up there toys. It all depends on how they feel, and thats never consistant.

I like the idea of giving the SC time, building a stronger bridge to the conscious mind.

Hey I got an idea..hold on....just tried asking mine what it wanted...got a really nice warm feeling and started to feel really peaceful...and a feeling of steping closer. Gonna experiment some more with this one.

Once we are friends I'll bribe it with chocs and sex  ;)

Waterway you have been waxing on and off...what am I supposed to do now....clean my ears out  ;)

wizopeva, somewhere around October 31, 2003

Well I think psi is really present in the population.  But it's called diff things like 'luck,' 'intuition,' 'instinct,' 'gut reaction,' 'hunch,' etc.  I think it's how abusers and victims can find eachother across a crowded room and why people wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat when danger is near.  I think psi impacts us in so many ways little and big, but that we choose to assign other explanations for most of those events, calling them coincidence, luck, logic or whatever.

And I agree that the sc may not be interested in reproductive potential, probably mostly just the pleasure that is usually associated with it.
-E

 

[quote].... and speaking of sex.... ::)

I don't think RV is biologically related then, and that kind of reflects on the origins of the Subconscious.  I mean, if PSI was genetical/bilogical in origin, then it would really be more present in the population cuz psychic people would be at a huge advantage.  

So if PSI is coming from the SC, then the SC isn't interested in reproductive potential.  Giving it chocolate will NOT reward it... directly....  

What do you think folks?

[/quote]

waterway, somewhere around November 3, 2003

You know, just from my own [color=Orange]experience[/color], it appears that my conscious mind's ability to get more from my SC has more to do with .... well... with experience.  If I practice RV, keep up with my dreams, intend to recall more and recieve more, I get better at it.  

Okay, I guess that's not a [color=Blue]eurkea[/color] kinda experience, but in my never-ending effort to EXPLAIN stuff, I sometimes make it more complicated that it needs to be.

Am I wrong?  Does the SC need more than TLC and some patience?  

Benton, somewhere around January 31, 2005

That Waterway, what a card.

Okay, more on the subconscious and left brain right brain stuff.  

The stuff you think in your head..... its all conscious stuff.  We have conjectured that PERHAPS the subconscious cannot "hear" what you are thinking, so in session you "objectify" so your subconscious can "hear" it.  Also, some RV teachers like you to use a verbal affirmation as part of the session prep.  Again, so your subconscious can hear it. So, that got me thinking.....

If its a subconcious thing, or even a right brain thing... what if you SANG the session, the objectification, the feedback?  We have said that allowing all the senses to participate helps.... why not in this fashion?  

All the big religions do it...... there must be SOMETHING to it.

What say you?  Or perhaps, all your responses should be to the tune of Beethoven's ninth, that part that came from one of my favorite hymns..... an die freude....ode to joy?  

admin, somewhere around February 2, 2005

[quote]If its a subconcious thing, or even a right brain thing... what if you SANG the session, the objectification, the feedback?[/quote]
My personal website, which for years has remained UNfinished and invisible because it has no front page--you can see how much importance I don't place on this! lol--has at least a couple little 'decrees', all of which are written to sing, most of which are spiritual stuff. ( http://www.palyne.com/me/spirit.html ) I never thought of 'singing' my feedback but hey, why not? I'll try a series of that and let you know. ;-)

PJ

Benton, somewhere around February 8, 2005

Let me know what happens.  

end of messages

[END Topic 100] Rewarding the sub TKR Remote Viewing Forum August 2003